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Mba Masters In Marketing...career Advice
Posted By: G Renner on 1/16/2007 2:42 PM (CST) 250 Points
Friends...

In my short time here as a member I have seen very quickly that there are some great minded and experienced people here. I need some help deciding on furthering my education.

I finished my undergrad in marketing a little over two years ago. After gaining some experience I have recently contemplated returning to school for my Masters. At The University of Cincinnati we offer an alternative to an MBA in the form of an MSBA or a Masters in Science of Marketing. It is the equivalent to an MBA but focuses 100% on marketing. I am not sure how common a similar program is at other schools but seems to be a great program.

I know many of you are busy but I have attached links to this program to help you answer my question. I appreciate your time.

Program Description
http://www.business.uc.edu/msmarketing

Course Curriculum
http://www.business.uc.edu/msmarketing/curriculum

Course Descriptions
http://www.business.uc.edu/msmarketing/curriculum/courses

I have a goal to one day start my own business but I think it is important for me to have real world corporate knowledge and education as a foundation. I have experience in small business but my next career move will be to a bigger more global company.

Keeping that in mind, here are my questions.

1. Would you consider to this (MSBA) to be thought of as equally valuable by the corporate community?

2. From a pure knowledge standpoint obviously this is a great experience but does it hold any value to an employer?

3. What do you think of the course content judging purely from the description?

4. Do you find it necessary to enroll in this program to gain the knowledge offered?

Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to look through that. I appreciate you taking time to invest in me.

Regards...

Gary Renner

Posted by: D4Demand Accepted Answer
1/16/2007 3:01 PM (CST)
First of all congrats on wanting to continue your education.

Secondly, please realize that the average tenure for a Chief Marketing Officer in the United States is 23 months.
 
Posted by: mzimmer999 Accepted Answer
1/16/2007 3:14 PM (CST)
I have served as the Chief Marketing Officer for a $3 billion media and consumer products company and also headed up our MBA recruiting program for several years and hope that I might be able to help.

An advanced degree is always a plus to a potential employer. The value wears off after 3-5 years since your track record should be well established by that point. So the real objective should be to leverage the degree and the knowledge gained as quickly as possible, and that usually means keeping your scope a little broad at first.

That said, an MBA will in most cases be the better option. It is more widely recognized and therefore removes the obstacle of explanation. More importantly, you'll require the breadth that a full MBA program offers, in terms of finance, leadership, international, operations, etc. in addition to marketing. Most good MBA programs offer a solid marketing concentration so you'll be able to focus on that without missing the related disciplines.
 
Posted by: G Renner Author Response
1/16/2007 3:20 PM (CST)
mzimmer999

In looking at the program offered by my school and some others it seems that there are only 2 or 3 classes on marketing included in the MBA program. I see your point about casting your net far and wide and I know my goal of owning my own business may be better served, but as far as near future would this MSBA be more valuable in applying to a job in marketing or equal.

Gary
 
Posted by: ahunt Accepted Answer
1/16/2007 3:40 PM (CST)
Gary-

Several years ago when I looked at getting an MBA myself, everyone I spoke with encouraged me to get one in something other than Marketing, since that had been my major as an undergrad. I now pass that advice on to you today. Set yourself apart from other marketers and concentrate your MBA in Finance or Economics to show a broader knowledge of business and better prepare yourself to work with the Finance/Accounting types down the line as you go up the corporate ladder. So many marketers don't understand finance, accounting, or economics and this lack of understanding can hamper their ability to get buy-in for their marketing programs from those groups or to justify their programs from a financial perspective. In the end, all education you receive teaches you to think in that way. Add some Finance/Economic/Accounting thinking to your skills and you'll be better prepared to advance over many of your marketing colleagues.
 
Posted by: KathySmithFilms* Accepted Answer
1/16/2007 3:44 PM (CST)
Hi Gary,

I checked out your sites. Nice programs on marketing tech!

Any learning is not just getting more and more facts. A fact is something that is known to be true. Getting more and more facts is not learning. Learning is understanding new things and better ways to do things. Learning about something you are interested in and applying to your work makes it easier. If one thinks they know all there is to know about any subject they will not be able to learn about it. You have decided to study more on marketing. No matter where you do this, that's up to you. Ranking of schools in the marketplace may be what is important to quality and placement for some corporations. Compare your program with other universities that offer marketing programs. Survey the type of corporations you have on your wish list and ask what university choices their top marketing staff went to in the areas you would like to live and work.

Get a consulting session with one of our top 25 experts ------>
to gain some insight from those that have been there and have produced products in the area of marketing. My viewpoint on marketing has shifted to more truth in this area after my consulting sessions. This will help you narrow the target greatly in your search.

I wish you the best,
Kathy
 
Posted by: ASVP/ChrisB Accepted Answer
1/16/2007 5:01 PM (CST)
Gary

First, congratulations on a very comprehensively presented, well thought-through question, and further accolades for having a completed profile.

I'd sign up for that MSBA. It sounds like a very sound course with plenty of meaty marketing content.

I had a laugh at Stephen's comment (D4Demand, above) that a CMOs average tenure in the USA is only 23 months. You know what they say about averages. The average Australian has one testicle, apparently...

Turning to your questions (quickly, after that one...)

  1. Would you consider to this (MSBA) to be thought of as equally valuable by the corporate community?

    2. I would think so. The content looks strong and it's not just the qualification, it's your passion and enthusiasm, plus the experience that you garner along the way, that makes you a good recruit. Or not.

  2. From a pure knowledge standpoint obviously this is a great experience but does it hold any value to an employer?

    3. See my earlier answer. If it doesn't, then either you haven't projected your enthusiasm for the business of marketing well enough, or else you haven't picked up the appropriate experience along the way. Or you're talking to the wrong employer.

  3. What do you think of the course content judging purely from the description?

    4. Looks good to me.

  4. Do you find it necessary to enroll in this program to gain the knowledge offered?

    5. There are probably plenty of other ways to learn the same subject matter but it would probably take a lot longer, and I doubt they would carry quite the same kudos when you are being considered for employment.

Hope this helps.

ChrisB
 
Posted by: dsteiner* Accepted Answer
1/16/2007 7:27 PM (CST)
I got my MBA from East Carolina University. My bachelor's degree was in marketing from ECU as well. I finished in May at 23 yrs old. It only took me 5 years to get everything. ECU offers an MBA completely online. I graduated with online students from London. Some people question the value of having an online program, but you still participate in discussion boards and virtual chats so you get out what you put in. I had a lot of group work in both my face-to-face classes and online classes and I really got a lot of them. If you would like information on our program please send me an email. You can take electives in marketing during your masters program. ECU also offers concentrations in several areas so you can do an MBA with a concentration in healthcare management, international business, etc; that way you have the MBA but also have the knowledge of other areas.
 
Posted by: wnelson Accepted Answer
1/16/2007 10:28 PM (CST)
Gary,

Great responses from a bunch of experts. If I may play emcee for you for a minute:
  • Stephen (D4Demand) If your goal is CMO of a fortune 50, first of all, competition is pretty stiff! And second, the stars burn out fast. If I may interpret, what he is telling you is: that to which you inspire is a transient reward. Be ready with a backup. Therefore, you may want to flesh out your plans for your own company and make sure that every move you make, including the large global corporate experience and your education fits into the overall plan.

  • Mark (mzimmer999) Yes, degrees are dated quickly. That means you have to make your mark quickly. Also, unless you get your MS Business from MIT, an MBA is looked on as "the real deal." You, all of the graduates, and the schools all argue different, and it might seem unfair, but, perception is reality. Mounting a crusade with footnotes saying, "the same or better" doesn't change perception.

  • Annette (ahunt) Marketing in the market place as a discipline has little respect. Most people thing of marketing as "another sales guy" or just some common sense - partly because no one really knows what marketing does, and partly because the selection process for marketing professionals tends to be sales guys who want to "come in from the field," or "an engineer who can talk." So a specialty in accounting, or even a specialty in engineering, chemistry, etc, before you narrow to an MBA or an MBA with a marketing specialty is a notch above the other MBA's with a marketing specialty.

  • Kathy )kathysmithcasting) A degree is a set of tools for your toolkit. After you have them, it's how you use them that count, not where they come from. Your college offers you some valuable tools. Your enthusiasm gives you power to ingrain the tools and implement them with fervor. This is what places you ahead of the other MBA's or MSBA's. Kathy also recommends that you contact some of the experts on here to have some "one-on-one" sessions. We can help. A good list of the experts with wisdom to add, in addition to those presented here, are: Randall (W.M.M.A.), Michael (mgoodman), Zahid (thinkmor) - those who contributed to your question these guys are the ones I look to for advice. Contact them through the information. Kathy also tells you (again wisely) that if you want to know what the big corporates think about your school, your degree program, the courses, go ask them!

  • Chris (ASVP/ChrisB) First, Chris gives us much about Australians than we learned from Crocodile Dundee. Thanks, Chris, for that mental picture. I'm sure years of therapy will fix this. Chris echos Kathy. It's your enthusiasm that will make your case. The program offers sound knowledge. And while there are plenty of ways to learn about marketing, a structured approach like this is preferable and looked upon by employers as better.

  • Donetta (dsteiner) The value of the program is related to the calibre of the students and experience working with them and the experience and knowledge the professors add. Wise words indeed

Gary, now I'll add my words to these great ones. You are a marketing expert. So use your skill on yourself! In marketing, you look to your customers to understand their needs and influencers (words and images that affect them to a "buy" decision). Back to Kathy's words...why ask us? You have had courses on quantitative methods. Do a survey of those corporations you are interested in what they think. Granted, asking us is a lot easier, but looking at your background, I don't believe you are a "just get by" and "take the easy path" kind of guy.

Now, if you want to get a job in the top 5 marketing firms in the country or consulting firms in the country, you better be in the top of you class in the top MBA schools in the country. Why is this? Another marketing term: Competition.

Your dream is to run your own marketing/branding company. So how big is this dream? Keep in mind that Bill Gates is a Harvard dropout. Steve Jobs dropped out of Reed College. Michael Eisner has an English degree from Denison College. Madonna Louise Ciccone - a marketing genius - quit University of Michigan in her sophomore year. John Bongiovi - another marketing and business genius never attended college. The guy who graduated #1 in my Duke MBA class is a private practice lawyer in rural coastal North Carolina - quite happily, I might add. A degree and college neither prevents or guarantees success. What does? Here's another marketing concept - core competency!

Treat your dilemma as a marketing problem. Take a look at your customers, competitors, and your own core competencies. Set goals on where you want to go in your career and put strategies together to get there. Based on this, look at the fit of the Univ of Cinn degree program.

I hope this helps. Good luck!

Wayde
 
Posted by: Alireza Mojahedi Accepted Answer
1/17/2007 9:00 AM (CST)
Hi,
I checked the sites.
I, as a managing director and MBA graduated person, think Marketing is too important but it is not any thing and it is only one part from the big chain you need to reach to your org. goals.

Regards,
Alireza
 
Posted by: Frank Hurtte Accepted Answer
1/17/2007 12:37 PM (CST)
It would be my vote that you go with an MBA...
The appeal to employeers will be greater. If you have a masters in Marketing and the employer thinks "I need a guy who understands Sales and marketing" you may loose...
 
Posted by: G Renner Author Response
1/17/2007 12:47 PM (CST)
Great advice...I am blown away, and again thank you for your participation

After hearing many of your comments I have these questions to ad.

1. Given the Gates and Jobs examples. Would it be in your opinion more productive to simply begin pursuing targeted clients to perform my core competency skills on right now and grow into what I want to be? All of course while gaining experience as Marketing Manager at my current company.
 
Posted by: wnelson Accepted Answer
1/17/2007 1:08 PM (CST)
Gary,

The examples of Gates and Jobs was to let you know that the degree doesn't make you or break you...Like Kathy said, it's the enthusiasm doing something you love that is the spark.

There's no reason to guess at this and that's what you and we would be doing if we answered without asking your potential clients. Marketing is systematic. What you are doing is marketing yourself to the clients. Go ask them what their needs are, assess your skills versus that, and build what you need to build to match what their needs are. If they say they need an advanced degree, then you can ask if it should be an MBA or an MSBA. A general management one, an accounting one, or an emphasis on marketing. Use your marketing talents to understand the needs, build the right core competencies (maybe you have these now...), use the right marketing tools to reach the clients, and you'll achieve your goals.

Wayde
 
Posted by: G Renner Author Response
1/18/2007 11:09 AM (CST)
Thanks Wayde

Great words there again

I appreciate every ones participation and knowledge

Gary
 
Posted by: Peter (henna gaijin) Accepted Answer
1/18/2007 2:17 PM (CST)
On starting a business and an MBA - When I got my MBA, I took a class in Entrepreneurship. The teacher started the class by asking how many people wanted to start their own businesses, and most everyone raised their hands. Then he pulled some statistics out about how few MBAs actually do. I don't remember the number, but it was small. The MBA degree (and likely the MSBA also) is great at training people to work in corporate environments. One of the main factors of an entrepreneur is the willingness to take a dream and just go and try to make it into a business.

That said, it could work. Jobs and Gates are the up and start doing it types. But others have done it with degrees.

On going marketing at all - Ok, you didn't really ask this, but I am throwing my $0.02 in. My undergrad is marketing. My MBA had a different concentration. I went through the process back when I got it about what degree to do, and there seemed to be a variety of people who feel that doing the same concentration in business for undergrad and grad is duplicating too much (which is different than hard sciences, like electrical engineering, where doing a BSME and then an MSEE is beneficial). The MBA doesn't provide that much more specialization than undergrad, so you don't learn all that much new.

If this is something you agree with, then going for an MBA rather than the specialized degree may be beneficial. I chose to do international business, as it let me still do marketing classes and such, but with the difference being that many focused on the international impact (where my BS was almost all domestic-oriented classes).
 
Posted by: NoStressXpress Accepted Answer
1/20/2007 10:38 AM (CST)
After reading all the responses from the forum I can definitely say that I agree with all of them. They are all RIGHT. I, for one, cannot argue with their answers because each and everyone one of them is a successful marketing professional speaking from their experiences. In the final analysis, the decision is yours and only yours to make.

I successfully held on to the marketing manager's position at a Fortune 100 company for nearly 18 years WITHOUT possessing any educational degree in marketing. If they say that the average lifespan of a CMO is 23 months then I would have to conclude that I did one thing right while I was in that marketing position. That one thing is fulfilling the requirements and expectations of the job. (Figure out the unmet needs of the customers and the market and do everything within resource constraints to fulfill those needs)

MBA or MSBA - I think either one is a winner. While there are many pros and cons to possessing the MBA degree I want to point out that the art and science of marketing was in existence much longer before the advent of the first formal degree granting institution.

I hope this helps.

Conrad
 
Posted by: mgoodman Accepted Answer
1/20/2007 1:50 PM (CST)
I won't bore you by repeating the great advice you've gotten above. I will cast my vote for the MBA, however, because you've indicated a desire to someday have your own business, and marketing alone isn't going to be enough. You need the full spectrum of business disciplines in your arsenal.

I decided, many years ago, to get an MSIA instead of an MBA. The difference was that the MSIA was more oriented to technical stuff and treated marketing more like a science than an art. (They now grant an MBA for all those same courses, because businesses don't understand MSIA but they sure do understand and value the MBA.) I found that not having an MBA was a problem, and I went back to grad school in a PhD program just to make up for the fact that I didn't have that all-important MBA the world wanted.

I bring this up to stress the point that part of the value in getting any advanced degree is to demonstrate that you have a legitimate interest in the field, want to associate with bright people who share that interest, and begin to build a professional network of like-minded people.

I think you'll get more of that, and it will be valued by the world more, if you get the MBA.

P.S. I used to live in Cincinnati and teach marketing strategy in the MBA program at Xavier. The marketing program at UC looks great, but it's still not an MBA, and I'd lean strongly toward an MBA.

My $0.02 worth.
 
Posted by: Kamran Accepted Answer
1/22/2007 6:37 AM (CST)
Turn for My Two Cents. All of the points have already been made repeatedly. But once again

Congragulations on the decision to become an entrepreneur. Most difficult part of the whole issue, at least that is my experience. Now my experience:

1. I dont have a MBA degree, but most (70+ %) of the courses, I took in my Master's program, were part of the MBA core curriculum. That created issues for me in the early years.

2. My speciality is market research, but feel that, I need information about other concepts to be a better professional.

3. I have been working with small enterprises / in entrepreneurship development and have found that, you need information about many concepts to be good at running a business.

4. MBA program would give you the contacts as well as a general overview of the other concepts. So my recommendation is MBA.

HOWEVER, if you want to become an entrepreneur, start NOW or it will be difficult for you. There are always roadblocks, promotion, more money, opportunities for travel etc

A business can be part time (just to earn pocket change, while getting your feet wet) or can be the main money earner (no income from buisness, no food on the table). So start now, while working at existing job (as you are already thinking)
 


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