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Competitors' Clients
Posted By: cread on 3/26/2007 2:40 PM (CST) 2500 Points
We are a payroll processor in the US.

We are marketing via the Internet and phone follow-up a paperless payroll system designed for companies of under 25 employees all in one state. It is priced at about 30% of (Not less than, but of) our competitors prices. We can do this because it is a paperless system taking advantage of newer web based technology applied to smaller organizations. This is not a suitable product for the Fortune 100,000 or even 1,000,000. We have a full service payroll service bureau for larger customers.

Our two biggest competitors are ADP and Paychex. They have an estimated 500,000 clients that match the profile for clients we seek. They cannot respond to our price point because of their pricing/marketing structure (at least we think so).

My mission, which I have accepted, is to identify those 500,000 potential clients who already outsource payroll with our competitors

Once identified we will then pitch them our services and price. We do everything ADP and Paychex do and then some. We also provide a level of expertise to our clients that our competitors don't. (We have CPA's on staff to answer client questions among other things). We do all that at less than one third of what ADP and Paychex charge. I think price alone will generate me a large return from those who view payroll as a commodity product (which it is not) and many more who are looking for service and expertise they are not currently receiving.

What inexpensive techniques using the web, PR, articles, SEO, blog, viral, or anything else can you suggest identifying these potential clients so I can pursue them with an educational/sales email campaign.

We have a substantial website at www.payrollonabudget.com and our in the process of updating it.

We currently get leads from our website and from several lead generation companies. I really want to increase the internally generated leads by several orders of magnitude.

I look forward to all your help and suggestions

Posted by: Steve Hoffacker Member Response
3/26/2007 2:59 PM (CST)
Hi Charles,

Your program sounds intriguing purely from a pricepoint basis so you should be able to create quite a bit of interest. Some companies likely will remain with their current service out of loyalty, systems in place, account executives, delivery systems, convenience, and other factors even though the price to do so may be higher. After all, price isn't the only factor to consider in deciding on a product or service.

The approaches you've described will all contribute to a data base of people that you can reach, but to make the sale you're going to need a small army of salespeople that can talk on the phone (outgoing solicitation calls as well as responding to inquiries and making the sale after information has been sent or made available) and visit people in person. I foresee a large calling effort to determine who is interested in pursuing your service.

To take it to the next level of getting in front of decision makers, look to sponsor and appear as a guest speaker at a variety of forums from trade associations to civic groups, chambers of commerce and other business organizations.

To gain credibility in a particular market as well as some testimonials, you might offer an introductory period where you discount your services even more or consider a pro bono approach for a non-profit or particularly influential business.

Steve
 
Posted by: Peter Hobday Member Response
3/26/2007 3:14 PM (CST)
Charles - this is a one-on-one job. To catch a big client, your senior executives have to make the pitch.

There will be no problem fixing appointments because your USP is so strong. But a top-level suit must do the calls because otherwise you won't project the right image for such a major re-working of a company's payrolling system.

The basis of your presentations will NOT be what you can do for them. It will be a presentation - slide show etc - of what you have done to save money for other corporations.

Forget the promises, and show some case studies. If you can't do that, you are not in business.

Let us know how it goes!

Peter Hobday
 
Posted by: W.M.M.A. Member Response
3/26/2007 3:35 PM (CST)
Both Steve and Peter have strong responses. I know many businesses that use one or the other of your competitors.

You ask what you should do...Peter's response is to get your Senior Execs out. That is absolutely true, and then some. You (your firm) have a lot of work to do.

Peter is right as for 1 on 1 for larger clients. But, in order to touch so many clients of your competitors, you are going to need a very strong direct-marketing campaign; account execs that can knock on doors; local and regional AdMark programs for name recognition.

But, you have another competitor that you did not recognize, and that is the entire PEO industry. Companies such as Adminstaff, and others in this industry manage payroll and HR/Benefits/Compliance...etc.

What are you going to do about local/regional name recognition? This is where the decisions are made.

In my market there are more than 5,000 energy-related businesses alone. Talk about market impact. If you are not reaching specific verticals by spending some money, I don't think your growth can reach its maximum growth potential.

Steve presents a strong case for "...loyalty, systems in place, account executives, delivery systems, convenience, and other factors even though the price to do so may be higher. After all, price isn't the only factor to consider in deciding on a product or service."

If this is the case, and I go along that it is...there must be some investment-spending by your company, far beyond list services and list management, and lead generation firms.

Should you use inexpensive techniques as the manner in which your firm is going to market, I think you are missing the larger opportunities.

If you build it...they will not necessarily come.
Randall
WMMA
 
Posted by: vermont_pr_guy Accepted Answer
3/26/2007 3:36 PM (CST)
Charles,

It sounds to me like you have an absolute lock for the business pages in terms of an intriguing story. Payroll services are relevant to every business regardless of size, and the fact that you have designed something that is specifically for that 25-employee and under segment which is so frequently overlooked by other packages makes it even that much more compelling.

If you have any sort of a budget, I would suggest contracting with a local PR pro with good connections and having him/her put together a really nice pitch and getting some good placements.

The key is that these placements take time, so you have to be patient, but the credibility that comes from that editorial coverage is priceless. You can try to do it yourself, of course, but I have found that there are typically so many demands on one's time the careful crafting of a pitch and the follow up necessary are often best left to a pro who is given a very specific task.

A good testimonial will be key. Accounting types are not generally famed as 'early adopters' or 'close followers' in terms of new technology, but if they can see someone who has used and benefitted from your product in an objective publication (i.e. not your sales collateral) that should certainly generate some promising leads.

Good luck,

~Jason
 
Posted by: cread Author Response
3/26/2007 3:56 PM (CST)
Peter, Et al:

We are going after small business. The revenue may be under a thousand dollars a year. There is no way I can send out salaried sales reps to cold call on every business in the country. That is what ADP and Paychex do.

That would cost tens of millions of dollars to set up and run each year. I would have to charge what ADP and Paychex charge and lose my price point advantage.

I just need to identify these companies. I can email market to them successfully if I know who they are.

I know how to market with a multi million dollar budget. I know how to handle multiple layers of management. I know how to cross check and disapprove expense accounts. I know how to hire large numbers of expensive reps that like to play pool in the afternoon.

What I don't know how to do is without spending 8 to 10 million dollars of direct mail to identify the 500,000 potential clients I know exist.

What I need to know is how to get there attention. Drive them to give me the company :

Name
Number of employees
How they currently do payroll
Company Email address

Once I have those pieces of information I know how to do the rest.

I am an independent operator and don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars of advertising/marketing budget.

How do I get the information I need without spending a large fortune. If I had the 10 million dollars to do the job via direct mail I would retire!!!!!!!
 
Posted by: Sales Training Member Response
3/26/2007 4:13 PM (CST)
Identifying your target market and generating traffic to your site is only a small part of the larger objective which is to "Gain Commitment". Sure, you can get traffic from a number of sources (i.e. email/adword campaigns, search result pages, etc.) and even have a great landing page that converts the traffic into leads, but then what?

You mentioned, "Once identified we will then pitch them our services and price."

This is exactly what most salespeople do which keeps them out of sync with the natural buying decisions all customers make. Most salespeople give the shpeal, quote price and then try to handle objections and stalls wondering why they can't close more sales. The fact is, 86% of all salespeople fail to ask the right questions leading to the inability to really understand the customer's needs.

Let me ask you a few pointed questions if I may.

1. Does your sales force wing it or do they have a proven sales process they can follow with each call; one that matches the customer's 5 buying decisions?

2. Do they differentiate your services on a value basis rather than on price? If price, then you train the customer to expect a discount next time and you run the risk of your service becoming a commodity.

3. Do they know The Best Questions to ask the buyer?

4. Do they know how identify the customer's need, agree on it and then position their solution?

5. Do they know how and when to use the Five Critical Sales Skills that really make a difference?

I would suggest the following books found at www.thesalesboard.com

Action Selling (This process has helped over 300,000 become top sellers)
Selling Your Price: Escaping the race to the bargain basement.
Questions: The Answer to Sales
Master of Loyalty: How to turn your sales force into a loyalty force

I hope this has been some help and leads your company in gaining greater commitment.

If you want further help in the sales management area, feel free to call us at [phone number delted by staff] or visit us online.

Just click on my Name above.

Thank You.
 
Posted by: Steve Hoffacker Member Response
3/26/2007 4:41 PM (CST)
Charles,

It sounds as if you have quite the conundrum because you are asking comptrollers and business owners to share with you the number of employees, who they currently use and the email address so you can do an email campaign. I stand by my earlier post and agree also with Peter and Randall. I know that I would not be swayed into changing services by an email I received, and I don't share employment information with anyone that I don't know.

And as for the savings, since you are talking only small businesses, the savings likely are less significant than the hassle of changing companies unless there already is a "itch" to change.

Steve
 
Posted by: cread Author Response
3/26/2007 4:49 PM (CST)
Dear Sales Training:

Answers to your questions:

1. I hire only successful payroll sales reps. Usually stay at home mothers or the like who have opted out of the daily cold call grind. I pay only on completed sales.

2. Rice and value. We supply a level of compliance competence and performance that are larger competitors can not touch. We provide better service with long term employees who bond with the clients. We have excellent references.

3. We attempt to find the sore/hot spot and then show where we can solve their problems. Our competitors are known for poor service, high turnover, and terrible customer response.

4. If at all possible. Many times the first thing out of a prospects mouth is their sore spot.

5. Unfamiliar with that term.

Again,

The purpose of this question is gaining targets not how to score bull eyes. I have got to have targets to aim at first. If I find I can't get my people to close them then that is an entirely different matter falling out side of this category of email marketing and going over to sales training or something else.

Please help me with inexpensive ways of identifying my targets! Anything that might work will be appreciated.
 
Posted by: W.M.M.A. Member Response
3/26/2007 5:00 PM (CST)
Sales Training...this forum is not for pitching programs. It is for helping posters to solve their issues, by answering their questions.

Cread: I understand completely what you are trying to achieve. Inexpensive way to identify targets...: Chambers of Commerce lists; newpaper listings of DBA filings.

I would be interested in knowing the level of success you (your company, and you, personally) achieve, over the next year, by utilization of your model.

All the best.

Randall
WMMA
 
Posted by: cread Author Response
3/26/2007 5:13 PM (CST)
Steve:

Thankyou for your continuing interst.

I realize what it takes to get customers to change. I know I am not going to get all 500,000 customers. But if can get 1% over the next two years I will be very happy.

The whole concept of designing a pesonal approach high dollar sales program is moot, I don't have the money. I want to pick the low hanging fruit with price point and high level service. Yes I will miss many potential customers. But if I can close one with 3 or 4 phone calls, as we do now, I can get 20 customers for the price of a rep calling on one account. I don't care if the rep sells five times as many clients it is a money losing proposition. When I have 2 million clients like ADP charging the highest prices in the industry I can afford 5000 sales reps at 30K plus benefits each and all the layers of management to support them.

Your point on testimonials is well taken. I am getting ready to have professional video testimonials shot for the web site.

I don't care who gives me the information I am seeking. Whether it be the owner, basically none of the companies I am aiming at have controllers, or an employee.

I know it is difficult to get this information. If it was easy I would not be here asking for help.

To small business saving a couple of hundred dollars a year is very important. It is a direct raise to the owner and they know it. The hasslel of changing is easily outweighted by the savings particularly since most of the hassle we handle for the client with no setup fee.

I sway people with email everyday. Email that specifically addresses their sore spot is effective. I am not talking bulk mindless spam. I am talking email addressing the specifc problems of small business payroll and compliance with IRS and State rules that most of the owners can only guess at. These kind of emails have a substanial return, I promise.

Again, I am looking for targets. When I have those I will kill and skin them. I know how to do that. I have been dilligently perfecting that process for small business payroll clients for the last two and one half years since starting this service.

Thanks for the input, please keep it coming.
 
Posted by: cread Author Response
3/26/2007 5:25 PM (CST)
Randall:
W.M.M.A.

I can easily identify 20 million small businesses. Not a problem the sources are vast and very inclusive. I can get name and address, cheap.

What I can't get cheap is do they outsource payroll, Who to, how many employees and what is the company email?

That is the question. With a hugh budget I would just call every company in the yellow pages in the US and ask them. Every telemarketing firm in the country would love to get rich doing that for me. I would probably have a pretty saleable product when I was done. I just need a few tens of millions of dollars.

I need to use the web in some new and interesting way.

Is there something you have dreamed of trying but your company heirarcy won't let you?

Is there something in the back of your mind to daring for your industry?

Some outlandish idea to radical for your company?

Let me know I might try it.

I have thought of:

Surveys with a premium.
Top ten list entry's
Trade associations with revenue sharing
Small Business trade associations
Something radical to get picked up in digger

Give me your best shot. If it works I will give you credit for it when Inc. magazine interviews me!!

Thanks for the continued interest.
 
Posted by: telemoxie Accepted Answer
3/26/2007 6:34 PM (CST)
I would approach the problem differently. Personally, I do not believe the issue of "who they outsource payroll to" is really an issue. If your service is all you say it is, you eat the competition for lunch anyway. What you need is a way to whittle down that list of 20,000,000 businesses to something more managable.

What I would do is to build, and test, a model to estimate a company's propensity to spend on an outsourced payroll service, such as ADP or your service, based on standard demographic data (location, SIC or NAICS code, # of employees, type of site, annual revenues).

For an example of this sort of analysis, check out Dun & Bradstreet's site, ZAPDATA.COM. They have a selection for "number of PCs". This is not based on asking each company how many PCs they have - this is based on samples done by D&B surveying companies of various sizes in various industries, and using this data to estimate PCs at a site. For example, an insurance firm with 100 employees would have many more PCs than a landscape company with 100 employees... and so D&B has developed weighting factors for companies in various industries and of various sizes... and updates those factors over time.

If I were you, I would develop a similar process, by conducting some small surveys. Once you have done such a survey, you can begin to predict how much a specific company spends on such a service based on easily available information. Naturally, you will not be able to determine "ADP vs Paychex" from demographic data - but if they meet your demographic profile, and are not already your customer, they are a suspect.

As you know, one you have demographics, it is very easy to get lists of business owners (e.g. from ZAPDATA) - and you can easily work geographically for your "stay at home moms". (But if it were me, I'd begin with a few select vertical markets, to test the theory and numbers... and to avoid tipping off your competition too soon).

Your model will be able to predict your best suspects with increasing accuracy over time. If your model is somewhat accurate, it will be a good conversation starter: "Mr. Johnson, based on surveys we have done of other companies of a similar size and type, we would estimate that you spend about $3,000 per year on payroll services, and that we could reduce that amount by 2/3. We would be more than happy to schedule a time to learn more..."
 
Posted by: landingpage Accepted Answer
3/26/2007 8:04 PM (CST)
If your CPAs differentiate you from the competition, why not put them to work for marketing purposes? Perhaps create a blog and/or newsletter in which they publish answers to questions they receive (generalized versions of course -- you don't want to create any privacy problems).

In your demographically targeted advertising, you could point prospects to this resource, which will generate more traffic than a sales pitch.

If you publish the information in a newsletter, you'll capture leads by virtue of newsletter signups. Just make sure you obtain permission to email these people periodically about your services in addition to providing the CPA answers.

If you provide the information in a blog, you can offer special reports summarizing portions of the blog (e.g., a California payroll report). Advertise these reports on the blog, and place the reports behind a form and you'll capture leads this way as well.

If you lack the resources for regular publishing, you could have your CPAs simply produce a report every month about some aspect of payroll (perhaps mining your customer data for trends), and offer these in your advertising -- plus publicize these reports to the media. Classic lead generation.

Good luck.

Neil J. Squillante
LandingPage Interactive
 
Posted by: D4Demand Member Response
3/26/2007 8:56 PM (CST)
As a former contractor for Paychex, not bound to any confidentiality agreements, I will tell you that your targets are not the companies but their accountants.

As one of my projects I had to call Paychex clients to update information. Let's just say that I talked to cookbook authors and to lots of construction contractors who answered while they were on their bulldozers!

In 80 to 90% of cases, these individuals were referred by their accountants. And accountants are available from every B2B list broker in the country. Including Email lists, which I high recommend using first.

As you know, there is a lot of personal relations in these business relationships. And Paychex has Personnel Manual services and other things they offer.

Let's make it easy. Aim for individual CPAs and bookkeeping services in your initial publicity push.

Then add on trade associations that cater to small businessmen (realtors, manufacturers reps, etc) and the CPA firms who are associate members.

Most accountants like to be heroes, too. If they trust you, they will refer you.

And so it starts.

D4
 
Posted by: D4Demand Accepted Answer
3/26/2007 9:03 PM (CST)
(D4 continued)

Don't forget to add bankers.

If you want the trade associations to get involved, 1-2-1 to reach their presidents. Offer an amazing discount to their members (10% off a list price of 120% of your target price.) See how it works. Then offer a rebate to the association which takes the net income to you to your normal target price. Let the Association make something off it and you may pique their interest.

It's worth a shot.

It's worth a shot.
 
Posted by: kevin.horne Accepted Answer
3/27/2007 12:22 AM (CST)
Charles:

Given just two factors you've told us - (a) the huge number of suspects and (b) the constraints on your capacity to spend marketing $ - i see only one way to go. Have the 500,000 identify themselves.

A couple of respondents have given you great ideas on ways to try and figure out who's who. But even if you could take the time, what would you do with the results? Direct mail them all at $5 a pop with a 1% response rate? Will that pay off? Unlikely.

Cut to the chase. Have someone create some attention-grabbing ad banners and get them on the sites your targets go to. Someone mentioned accountants for example. Get those banners on the places CPAs go online. And I wouldn't count out the owners - put the banners on "entrepreneur" and "small business" type sites.

I'm no creative, but the ads need to speak directly to the competitors' users a la "Have you been using ADP (or insert other competitor name) to handle your payroll servicing? We thought you might want to know how much you could have saved if we were doing it." Let a couple of good thinkers go at it for a couple of hours and come up with something way better than what i just wrote. Then link them to a little "savings tool" on a special landing page on your site. The tool will include a few lines to fill in to identify what you need to know without being burdensome (name, title, e-mail addy, size of co/# employees, current payroll method, current cost). The tool then spits out a savings of 70% (or however it is supposed to go). At the end, go for the sale - can we switch you over? The first month is on us.

Even though it sounds like the savings ought to be enough, you know how people are. That's why I feel you need a significant offer (I made up the one-month free - only you know what you can afford vis-a-vis lifetime value). I don't think you are going to get a long sales cycle with lots of touches out of this - go for the throat. (Of course you will need a strategy for nonresponders to the offer.)

You should couple this with a good SEM program to drive people to the same landing page as described above. Get creative with the keywords. In the interest of space, I'll assume you've done search mktg before and stop here.

One last thing - create a lot of internal hoohah for this program. Incent people - most ADP switches per day, per week, etc. gets a bonus of some sort. Although I've not done this in your industry, I can say from experience with an IT client that making a big deal out of a "competitive switch" program and incenting ALL the sales people has a significant impact on success.

NET: Let the vast universe identify itself through response to some attention-grabbing web and SEM marketing. Engage them in a tool that immediately reflects the savings, and go for the kill with a good offer. Promote the heck out of the program internally.
 
Posted by: Peter Hobday Accepted Answer
3/27/2007 5:02 AM (CST)
Steve - thanks for explaining a bit more about your needs.

You say:

"What I can't get cheap is do they outsource payroll, Who to, how many employees and what is the company email?"

That is a simple matter of information capture. If it was me, I would use Adwords, which is how I do my business now.

But it will be the offer that brings leads in. My simply advice is to offer a free case study, selling your benefits.

There are other offers you could make. But that offer of case studies would work and your prospects would register with the information you require to get it.

Of course you need a snappy site and good 'register now' promotion. Good copy is essential.

Peter
 
Posted by: cread Author Response
3/27/2007 10:19 AM (CST)
Thanks everybody things are being to come through. A comprehensive answer to the most recent posts:

Telemoxie:

ADP spends 100 million dollars a year in advertising and has 5000 salespeople on the ground. Paychex something less but still a lot of $'s and feet calling mostly on CPAs to influence them. If I know a company has made the difficult decision to outsource (and less than 30% have) I am way ahead of the game. To convince them to outsource over the web or phone is an immense task. Convincing them they have just picked the wrong provider is not the same magnitude of task by far.

Landing Page:

We do a blog and write articles for ezines. We have published 18 to 20 thousand individual ezine articles in the last 9 months.

The newsletter is more work but we have www.payrollnewsletter.com already in our pocket.

D4Demand:

A trade association discount revenue sharing is a good idea. We have tried with a number of associations over the last few years and have never been able to close one. The last bi one we spent a lot of money on cost my last marketing manager his job. We have sold far more business since he left than we did when he was here. But, God, he told great stories.

The problem with CPAs is Paychex is bombarding them with pretty girls on a constant basis. Sometimes offering monetary incentives sometimes not. To climb that same ladder that Golisano dig would be far more difficult for the second guy.

Bankers and we have talked to hundreds again require someone on the ground. Try to convince them by phone/web is nigh impossible. And if there is a profession more entrenched in the past than CPAs (and I am one) it is bankers.

Kevin.horne

Good idea. I will check into costs. We have a price comparison page and we could either link to it or adapt a new landing page (which will also help with the analytics of the campaign) to highlight the savings and add a call to action.

We work on SEO and SEM daily. The revised sight should be up shortly. I may run it through Marketing Profs first as well. Just to see what everyone thinks of it.

Peter:

We use PPC which was a disaster. The price is very high and our results were pitiful.

However, I am interested in the idea of white papers/ case studies/ top tips etc. What would you do to promote them.

I have just completed a Ebook on starting a new business and want to promote it effectively as well.

Thanks Everybody. I am going to keep this open for a few more days. I still am looking for the killer idea though I have received some suggestions worth trying.

Charles
 
Posted by: michael Accepted Answer
3/27/2007 4:42 PM (CST)
Cread,
Years ago I started using the Manufacturers Directory (some states also have Services Directory) which is at the local library. Larger libraries have these directories for all states.

BUYING them is about $400 each and you have to update BUT you can get them on CD for the same price and sort by sales/employees/title etc.

Listing usually include website and key e-mail addresses. If your good sales people know how to sell, which I don't doubt, send them to the library and pay them a couple extra bucks if they dig it up themselves..or, like I said, buy the CDs.

(I used them when I was selling small group insurance 25+ years ago and the books get better every year)

Michael
 
Posted by: retail Member Response
3/28/2007 2:12 PM (CST)
Have you considered "Franchising" your idea.

Sounds like you have a great concept and if it is currently working for you on a local basis rather than trying to be the man for everyone in the nation and world, why not let other people buy that opportunity from you, then you can get start-up and royalty money while others build the business.

As has been mentioned above, this is a very personal proposition for many companies and most want someone nearby and available in the event of a glitch cause if people don't get paid on time, there is a huge problem.

You should look into franchising.

Good Luck - See my profile to email me and let us know which direction you decide to go.
 
Posted by: cread Author Response
3/28/2007 5:21 PM (CST)
Retail:

We currently operate our discount payroll in 37 states.

We have a program for our full service payroll bureau to provide back office operation for any one who wants to set up their own company and market payroll.

The margins on the discount product are slim. If fact probably not enough to support anyone setting up from scratch. (A high barrier to competition!) Let alone with us taking a cut. There is enough for an affiliate program which we are in the process of exploring thanks to a member here who contacted me directly without posting.

Thanks for the thought.
 
Posted by: cread Author Response
4/3/2007 8:43 AM (CST)
Thanks to everyone for their input.

Regards,

Charles
 


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