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Web Site Design - Copy First? Or Look-and-feel First?
Posted By: cwbysfan1* on 7/7/2004 3:21 PM (CST) 250 Points
What is the best way to approach a web design? Should you write all the copy for all of the pages and then have a designer design the look and feel around it. or vice-versa, or are they done at the same time?

Posted by: kwinters* Accepted Answer
7/7/2004 3:27 PM (CST)
Well, I have done this a couple of times however I am no experienced pro at web design, so I'll share my experience with you....

The way that we did it was decide what content we wanted and have a rough outline of content....then we found a list of sites, some similar in business nature others not, and gave them to the designer and told him what we liked about each.....then we gave the design to web designer and asked them to come up with a couple of ideas, considering the content and line of business, and we thought of our own ideas in the meantime...at our next meeting we looked at it all and began to hash it out....

I found that this way worked well for us because we were able to do some of our own creative while we tapped the creative talents of the web designer.....

Writing copy is not a first step accomplishment, first step is a rough idea of what you want in the web site, then you design it, then when you are satisfied with the design you finalize the copy, because you will find that things you want in there and write initially don't fit or need to be changed because the way they read is effected by the design....

hope this helps....
 
Posted by: NuCoPro Accepted Answer
7/7/2004 3:30 PM (CST)
Copy comes after you have completed your creative aspects. Of course you need to understand the high-level concept of what the categories/types of content will be, as that is integral to the creative.

The detail copy has to wait until you have mapped out the web structure and settled on a format. Then you can write copy for specific pages.

Writing copy then doing the design is VERY much "putting the cart before the horse". :)
 
Posted by: Frances* Accepted Answer
7/7/2004 4:10 PM (CST)
My opinion is that it should be done at the same time: I find that one of the success factors in web site design is the amount of collaboration between writers and designers.

The way you work often depends on the kind of people you work with. I'm a writer, and this is a very rough outline of the way I like to work:

The first thing is the site structure and the overall concept. Both the designer and the writer need to input into this.

Designers' input helps you ensure that the structure is usable and will work visually. Writers also input, for example, we have a good feel for how much copy is needed for each section - and how this will affect the structure.

From then on, the designer goes away and comes up with some templates. The writer goes away and comes up with some sample copy. Then we meet and talk about how the copy and design will best work together. Eg, how to treat headings, how long nomenclature (navigation items) need to be, and so on....

After this, we start the writing exercise in earnest, and both writers and designers have a clear picture of what the overall pages will look like.

So it's a very collaborative thing - one should not be really put before the other...
 
Posted by: Deremiah *CPE Accepted Answer
7/7/2004 4:32 PM (CST)
cwbysfan1,

There are two approaches. One is totally with copy in mind the other is with design in mind. What I've found though is the best websites have a strong intergration of both great web design and great copy.

In the content motivated website a lot of people are focusing more on copy. In the more arts related websites you'll see more design and flash.

Just get on the web and look at websites of artist and people in the music entertainment industry and you'll see what I'm saying. Analyze, examine and review this with websites of people in the financial/ banking industry and you'll see more copy directed websites.

Personally I'm all for writing down things first. This is because when we begin with pencil and paper, rough sketches and notes our ideas can be refined. It's like starting a business without (at least) a sketch of an idea for a business plan. How do you know where you're going if you don't know where you been? Writing it down helps you to know where you've been.

Cowboys Fan, Whatever you do whenever you do your website just remember...do it from your heart. My grandmother used to say "What comes from the heart, reaches the heart". This is the unique part of you and what gives your ideas your own personal signature.

I say Refine/Design,
brings wealth in time.

I hope I 've helped you. Is there anything else I can do for you?

Your Servant, Deremiah, *CPE
 
Posted by: LJW* Accepted Answer
7/7/2004 6:26 PM (CST)
It depends totally on the purpose of your website. Why do you want a website? Who is it for? What do you want them to do? What's in it for them?

If you have reason to submit your site to a search engine, then you will need to concentrate on making it search-engine friendly. Search engines like words not graphics. Your task is to get people to your website. It won't matter how pretty it is, if they can't find it! So start with the words.

Your graphics should support your words. The visual design is important in establishing credibility.

Even if the website belongs to an artist or photographer - with lots of graphics - the purpose is the starting point. What is he trying to achieve? Does he want the website-visitor to go to his exhibition? Is he running an online shop selling limited edition prints? Well if our artist is going to submit his site to a search engine, there will still need to be sufficient meaningful words to enable the website to be found.

So start with the reason why you are creating a website. Then if you're going to submit it to a search-engine, follow with the content.
 
Posted by: SRyan ;] Accepted Answer
7/7/2004 9:39 PM (CST)
Cowboy Scott, a good web designer should give you more than an appealing look-n-feel; she should offer you a workable structure with room to grow and expand the content. As you've already read here, the outline of the site content is integral with design. The actual copy comes later, although you might have big chunks of it you can reuse from existing printed collateral.

The only thing I can add to the valuable advice you've received here already: Don't stall the launch of an important website because all of the content/copy isn't ready. Get your designer to help you plan for staged releases, and plan for testing visitor traffic patterns along the way. Good content management tools will help if you want to update the copy frequently, too.

Keep it human, friendly, and usable! Good luck.

- Texas Shelley
 
Posted by: Steve Wasiura Accepted Answer
7/8/2004 6:44 AM (CST)
The best way to approach a web designer is to sneak up behind them, throw a wet blanket over their head and beat 'em with a baseballl bat until they stop blabbering about how design is important because it reflects the brand of the business.

Take their proposed cost and cut it in half. Threaten to send the work to India. Use a pre-built template. Save all your money for Google ads to promote your website. Write your content on the back of a napkin and sketch out your website design on your brown bag lunch. Make sure you use an email newsletter to annoy your subscribers as much as possible. NEVER update the site.

Cowboys. Ha !

Write all your content first. Then if you decide you still want a website, (after you realize how hard it is to write GOOD content), contact a web designer to convert it all to HTML. Put it online so the search engines will crawl your content. Then discuss who your website visitors are and how they will use the website, to come up with a useable design. Then when all the design is done, do your usability testing by observing 5 of your typical customers trying to use your website. After you interview them as to what they got out of the pages they visited, re-write your content to better achieve your goals, re-design the website navigation to make it easier to find things, and increase your keyword density and link popularity to improve your search engine positioning. Test it all again with a mixture of new and the same testers. Wash, rinse, repeat.

It's a long term commitment. Meet the parents early in the relationship. Know what you're getting into. Don't say nobody told you.
 
Posted by: Michele Accepted Answer
7/8/2004 7:13 AM (CST)
You do not start with either the copy or the design - you start with the strategy!

The strategy includes things that have been mentioned above - the site architecture (flow), the target markets, the site purpose. If it is a technically complicated site, then you would do a technical specifications document, which would contain elements like the database structure.

Once the architecture is complete, the design and copy can run in parallel.

What Steve did not mention is that web designers and copywriters have baseball bats of their own that they keep up their sleeves to wield at clients who continually change their mind half way through the design process!
 
Posted by: SRyan ;] Member Response
7/8/2004 7:14 AM (CST)
Sure is nice to have Steve back!!
 
Posted by: km2000* Accepted Answer
7/8/2004 12:01 PM (CST)
Steve & Michele are both correct... (baseball bats included.) ;)

Having been on both sides, (web design back in the mid-90s and as part of a marketing dept. now) I have to say that I'm still a big fan of function over form, both on the web & in my everyday life. I don't care how attractive it is, if it doesn't serve a purpose there's not alot of point in spending money on it. (My little '96 Neon is a perfect example... still runs well, I don't care that it's older & starting to rust a little.)

Basically, you need to be sure that what you're creating online will be useful to your target market, in other words, what's your purpose for creating the site. Once you know your purpose, figure out the best way to get that across (your content & design) and then review it to make sure that the design & content reflect your purpose and is easy to use.

I can't stress ease of use enough. I don't care how rich in useful content a site may be, if it's not intuitive (easy to use) I'm not going to use it & I'm not likely to return to it at a later date.

So, to summarize: content & design can be developed in tandem, but only AFTER you've clearly defined the purpose & the best way to achieve it.

k.
 
Posted by: kimbiqua* Accepted Answer
7/8/2004 12:34 PM (CST)
My big fear in all of your suggestions is that by writing content first, you are almost guaranteed to write too much. It's not a white paper. You can't put all the details on your site. So I suggest you do strategy and site map first. You will have sales materials and possibly earlier versions of a web site. Make sure your web designer has experience with content management. He or she will have advice for you on how to manage your content specifically for web use. Then have the copywriter fine-tune and fit the copy to the layout. Copywriters are not experts on the web. This is where you want to let your web specialist lead the way.

The copy will be written to fit the space of the design, and I can almost guarantee you that the designer will not leave you enough space for you to ramble on. Keep it short and sweet, then trim it some more. If you have details to convey, do it as a pdf attachment or send them your sales materials in the mail.

Thanks for the great question.
K
 
Posted by: Mac Accepted Answer
7/13/2004 6:03 PM (CST)
cwbysfan1,

Good thoughts here by all. Here's my two cents:

There are great sites with wonderful copy and great sites with wonderful graphics. But "Look and Feel" is purely the 'driving experience'. Some can be like going to a classy French restaurant when you're starving (may look good, but you'll still be starving when you leave).

Michele is dead on. Get your strategy down cold first. Who? What? Where? When? Why? How? Then write it up. Short, sweet, to the point. Then get the Web designer to package it effectively and attractively.
 
Posted by: The DN Group* Accepted Answer
7/14/2004 4:54 PM (CST)
Here's some thoughts (based on my experience as head of marketing at FoxSports.com from 2000-01 and as a marketing & website consultant ever since):

During the early years of the internet, people "surfed" the web looking for cool new sites; to successfully attract visitors then, websites needed lots of bells & whistles in their design.

Now that the novelty has worn off, people "search" the web looking for specific information or products to buy; to successfully attract visitors now, websites need to be relevant and useful, as well as easily found & navigated.

Unfortunately, many website designers tend to still focus on bells & whistles that don't help to achieve your website's purpose - and may even be a hindrance (e.g. some web designers love to use Flash, even though webpages with Flash typically rank lower on Google search results than webpages without Flash).

Therefore, I highly recommend that your first step be to write the website copy (emphasizing the keywords that are most likely to lead "searchers" to your site) and determine the sitemap (for the most intuititive, user-friendly navigation). Your second step would be to provide clear creative direction (along with the website copy and sitemap) to the web designer.

MarketingProfs.com has several excellent articles with tips on how to write effective website copy, if you need help in that area.

Good luck!
Dave
The DN Group
 
Posted by: Sharon Moderator Response
7/20/2004 5:28 PM (CST)

Hello all. I am closing this question, since it's more than 2 weeks old. We do this to make sure members' contributions are rewarded in a timely manner and to improve the visibility of newer questions. Thanks so much for participating!
 
Posted by: Steve Wasiura Member Response
7/21/2004 8:02 AM (CST)
Thanks Shelley for welcoming me back. I just got out of prison for assaulting a client who wanted an all-flash website. I don't use baseball bats anymore, I switched to tazers, I heard they even kill people sometimes. If that doesn't work I use a fart bomb. Clears the room out right away. Then I just forge their signature on their check and start the project. Before they know what hit them, they've got a top ranking website. But they never invite me back for an in-house meeting. All future communication is done via email. I don't know why, perhaps efficiency?

Actually I got piss bored with all the newbie postings here and automatically deleted all the digest emails I was getting . Then one day I accidentally opened one up and saw this question labeled "How Can I Market a Portable Nuclear Bomb?". It intrigued me to come back and visit the site, and I think it was then that I stumbled upon this question.

So is the KHE a victim of bad reputation, as in "oh that board is a bunch of student garbage, I'm not going to bother opening up the email digest..."? In my opinion it was, but I saw Val's attempt to establish some guidelines for askers, so I know she's working on it (not in it). Which make me want to shout "Val for President!" I'm sure she could restore the world's faith in the USA and bring about peace in the middle east. Who's got the bumper stickers?
 


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