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This question has been closed, and points have been awarded.
Why Are Some People So Concerned About Points?
Posted By: Jett* on 8/10/2004 9:32 PM (CST) 5000 Points
Why are some experts so concerned about the points others have earned and what they do with them?

Posted by: Phil* Accepted Answer
8/10/2004 9:41 PM (CST)
Hiya Jett,
Maybe because they feel that they are inferior to those who have been awarded the points. Perhaps their knowledge base is not as wide as some of the other experts. Perhaps they are just too competitive in an arena where the competiton is higher than their usual calibre.

The whole raison d'etre of this site is that if you can help just one person - isn't that where the real reward is?

So I suppose my answer to your question has to be "I really don't care about them and their points" (or my points if it comes to it). Focus on giving a helping hand, or don't bother contributing.

and now I'll duck the onslaught and backlash I guess
:)

Phil
 
Posted by: Phil* Accepted Answer
8/10/2004 9:44 PM (CST)
Oops...I missed one last point - a very important one.

KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK YOU DO ON THIS SITE JETT.

I for one, really appreciate the time and effort you put in, and selflessness with your knowledge.

Cheers

Phil
 
Posted by: SRyan ;] Accepted Answer
8/10/2004 9:55 PM (CST)
Blaine, the only time I got chafed about the system was when The Consultant was blatantly committing "points fraud." It was the first and only time I found myself thinking about who "deserves" points or not.

When we are able to convert Expert points into frequent flyer miles, maybe I'll take it more seriously.

Shelley ;]
 
Posted by: virago* Accepted Answer
8/10/2004 10:18 PM (CST)
I am not sure what 'points fraud' is but it sounds very threathening! I am amazed that someone would try to get extra points for a knowledge sharing site.

Would you be here if you didn't get points? Most would say they don't care.

I am not really concerned about the points but it does help me consider if my answer was useful or not to a question. If I don't get points I ask myself why. Usually it comes down to my not reading the question right or someone else gave a better answer. It actually helps me consider if my answers have been useful or not which in turn refines my way of answering questions.

You also have to consider that on this page is the top 25, in the weekly newsletter is the top 10 most expert so it's marketed in a way to say it DOES MEAN SOMETHING to the site.

As Shelley pointed out I would love to upgrade my points to something, say a Premium membership. If I spend hours helping others over the course of a number of months then it would be a great incentive to keep me answering questions.
 
Posted by: Inbox_Interactive Accepted Answer
8/10/2004 10:19 PM (CST)
Because one of the greatest problems this country faces these days is drug abuse, particularly by our youth. If we tolerate the use of joints in our schools and in our homes, no good can come from it. Just say NO to joints!

What?

We're talking about "points?"

Oh, well that's different.

Never mind!
 
Posted by: SRyan ;] Member Response
8/10/2004 10:35 PM (CST)
Speaking of taking things seriously... please don't hit me with points for this question, Blaine. I'm not responding for the score, just to be part of the conversation! Thanks.
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/10/2004 11:05 PM (CST)
Thanks Phil. I feel the same way.

On one side of the coin, I don't care what the others think. Perhaps it truly is an issue of jumping into an arena more competetive than they imagined. For several months now, there has been a lot of discussion about how points should be awarded, point caps (earned and offered), and a few voting polls to determine who the "real" experts are based on the contribution of a dozen or so responses.

These particular people spend more time complaining rather than focusing on responding. This, of course, leads to a secondary result of not earning points...pushing them further and further down the totem pole. Some have said that the top 5 or so experts have so many points that it is impossible to compete. This is total crap! I started out at #200 and something and climbed my way up. So did Marcus, Gerardo, Michele, Jim, Andrew, Tim, Amanda, etc. They all came in after me and came right up on my ass. How? Read on...

If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times: "Participate, Participate, Participate if you want to have more influence in this community". I have NEVER claimed all of my answers are the best, most "expert", or of the highest quality. I can say that I respond how I respond. If a question inspires me to write an essay, I will do so. Likewise, if a question simply requires pointing someone to another site in order to get more specialized information (i.e. a post this week about CRM in which I directed the member to CRMguru.com for better advice...and earned 250 points). Now there are some that would say this is undeserved because I didn't really offer any expertise. My POV is I DID share some helpful information/knowledge in which this person did not possess. I sent him to a site where there are CRM experts waiting to jump all over questions such as his. So did I help him? Yes. Did I share some industry information? Yes. Did I take the time to do so? Yes. Did I write a few paragraphs of fluff in order to create some kind of preceived "expert behavior"? NO!!! Why? Because it's not necessary.

I stumbled across this forum back in Dec during the BETA trials. There were some questions posted in which I felt inclined to donate a little input, a different perspective than the other posts. As a result, I earned some points. Back then, there were a LOT of people flexing their marketing vocabulary, speaking in technical jargon, going off on different tangents, spending a paragraph or two on all the awards they won, name dropping, making suggestions on what the asker "should have asked" or what "the real question is...". I jumped in and did something absolutely crazy; I answered the questions. Amazingly, I started getting most of the points.

While the others (most of these folks are gone now) kept bragging and patronizing the askers, I kept answering. It was mind boggling when people would send me emails asking "How do you do it!!"

The first person with whom I shared my "secret" was ASVP/Chris. Now, he didn't ask me how, we just started talking off-site and I let him know. Next, I told Amanda Vega. Then, one day, I made it "public". It's kinda funny yet curious at the same time. I think several experts thought of this place as a virtual bragging water cooler... a place to match wits and vocabulary, rather than focus on answering questions. Not eveyone, but A LOT where doing this.

Anyway, it's cool to see that 100% of our current experts actually answer questions. Whether or not it's a link to another site or a dissertation, everyone is really trying.

I've already made it well known I feel Jim Deveau is a class act and certainly derserves my "vote" for Top Expert. Unfortunately, it's not up to me. It's up to Jim's participation, posts, and the people who read them (all stellar IMHO). Some other superstars I admire (please do not get offended if I leave your name out...just spitting a few off the top of my head): Michele, Marcus, Amanda, Katrina, Jerry (JBtron), Chris, Tim, Jacco, Deremiah, Cal, Andrew...just to name a few. I learn so much from their responses and they inspire me to learn more so that I can continue to give to this community.

I am very happy to be rated #1 overall. But like I stated before, I don't care about the points. I'm here to learn, network, look for potential clients, and have a little fun.

Shelley - DITTO...BIG TIME!! I'm glad that came to an end. What a relief!!
 
Posted by: Carl Crawford Accepted Answer
8/10/2004 11:13 PM (CST)
hi jett;

i dont have time to read everyones posts at the moment but i personly like the fact that when i get points i know some one has found my advise useful in a away that they can use in the real world.

i am just learning about marketing and like the idea that MY ideas are useful.this gives me a little bit of conferdance about MY learning and that i am NOt wasteing my time learning something that will set me apart from the other people of the world.

have a nice day and i hope this helps

Sweetasman01
 
Posted by: Pepper Blue Accepted Answer
8/10/2004 11:14 PM (CST)
Blaine,

I feel the same way you do, and I agree that it is the same people that bring up the points issue time and time again, and it is beyond being tired and old.

Phil's response echoes mine exactly, I cannot give a better response - thanks Phil - don't worry about the onslaught and backlash, I'm willing to bet that the majority of the top experts, at least those of us who have been here since "Day 1" don't care about the points, they became meaningless long ago.

In fact, if you look closely you'll notice that the majority of the top experts don't even answer as much as they used to, we now respond only to those for which we can add real value, not just to see/hear ourselves yap - and add points.

I think you will find that the "complainers" are the same people who don't respond to the 50 point and student questions, they wait for the "homeruns".

Lastly, I would love the opportunity to cash my points in on a premium membership, coffee mugs, cool hats and t-shirts, or pint beer glasses - now that would be good marketing!
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/10/2004 11:22 PM (CST)
Virago- Thanks! Yeah, points fraud is someone stealing points, asking a question under another identity, then awarding themselves. Bad stuff. And it doesn't make sense.

It would be nice to be able to exchange points for "some THING", but they have to gain a level of value first. Until the KHE becomes a revenue stream, I doubt we will see any kind of MP store that accepts points. Except for promotional items like coffee mugs, mousepads, pens, Laptops, luxury cars, etc.

Inbox- Comeon...everybody's doin it!! What are you...a chicken? If you were cool you would share some points with me...

Shelley - Sorry sweetie! You don't get off that easy. But I will make you a deal. Post a response you feel is worthy of points regarding ANY subject, and I won't give you any, otherwise....

You worked your way up to where you are. No matter how many points someone gets, if they get a boost in the ranks, they have to work to keep the position. I have proved this several times over by moving people from #25 to #3...and they only last about a week or so. The points work. They are a reflection of your ability to help and contribute quality content. If I boost you, you will either keep it, or lose it.

I appreciate your altruism and modesty regarding the fact you feel your posts are just for fun, but the key to all of this is you are participating, and thereby contributing whether you realize it or not.
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/10/2004 11:30 PM (CST)
Sweet - I love reading your input. I think you are doing a great job and making a valuable contribution. Keep it up!

Tim- You know we are on the same page. I agree, most of the complainers wait for the "homeruns". Glad to see that you, Phil, and I share the same feelings.

Like I said above (probably while you were typing your post) , I think the only way MP could justify trading points for merchandise is if it is promotional to the site and the KHE. At least they could write it off (if there is certain merchandise that is "points purchase only").
 
Posted by: virago* Accepted Answer
8/11/2004 12:41 AM (CST)
Actually I am quite amazed at your comments Blaine about the 'complainers'. I think it's the tall poppy syndrome, people always wants to knock off the top performers.

You have been voted by your peers to be the most expert due to the amount of points you have earned, the help you have given and the committment to the success of the website. No arguements with that.

Maybe MarketProfs needs to develop an EBay type rating out of 5. But even that has created problems for some sellers on the site.

At the end of the day is it worthwhile to have a points system or are we just egotistical maniacs looking for acceptance?
 
Posted by: cal* Accepted Answer
8/11/2004 1:12 AM (CST)
I can't say how I would disagree with your reasoning, Blaine. Makes sense to me.

I don't know why people would get too bent about the points, unless maybe they have some aspirations they don't see themselves being able to achieve with regular posters like you around. Maybe some of them will step up and explain their viewpoint, and get it out in the open. They must believe they have something valid.

Most people are here likely for multiple reasons - prove themselves, improve themselves, enjoy themselves, create more ‘credentials' for themselves, feel good about themselves by helping others, ......... . Can't say as how I see anything much wrong in that. Like my pipe fitting philosopher friend likes to say: "It's all about me."

Can't say how the point system is such a bad thing, either. It can be a ‘reward' and ‘recognition' of sorts for those putting in an extra effort.

In the end, we're all probably a little acceptance seeking and egotistical. If we don't get some satisfaction here, we'll go looking for it somewhere else. I won't make excuses for being what I am. I blame my parents, grandparents, teachers, ..........

cal
 
Posted by: Deremiah *CPE Accepted Answer
8/11/2004 1:32 AM (CST)
Jett,

I just made it in. Pretty interesting subject and some very interesting responses. ( (( Hey Shelley )) ) are you saying I can't convert my points into Frequent Flyer miles? Well I guess that means my trip to Texas is out...

I could care less about the point system because it's the lives of people that really matters to me and I think you know "that's right" Jett. & it's not for the leads I get either because I've got more opportunities than I've got hours in the day.

Jett>Why are some experts so concerned about the points others have earned and what they do with them?

Only God knows cause I sure don't know. I can only assume as we say in the hood We got some Haters in the game. Player Haters...and here's a song I wrote just for them.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""PLAYER HATER""""""""""""""""""""""""""
(The theme song from Players)
"it sounds like we got some HATERS in the house,
HATERS in the house, We got HATERS in the house, Player Haters in the house!"
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

The kids in the hood say "Don't hate just appreciate".

Personally I could care less what you do with the points Jett. They belong to you. I only wish the best for you. This is a Free country unless you're living in bondage to what people say. And I just have to be honest with you I just don't get into that slavery thing.

Jett, CONTINUE to bE Free, bE Fresh and BE Funkii. This is a Free forum unless you put a lot of time into it and that's where the acknowledgement of points reflects to some degree the contribution a person puts into it.

Jett, I am inspired by your team effort and your willingness to keep throwing curve balls every now and then to keep this thing from becoming a boring bash of Blah, BLAHS! If you look at questions I've answered you'll see a vast aray of points from low to high. I just answered a 30 point question yesterday with the same deep committment to the listener that I do as the "Point Rich" questions like this. Keep it up! Is there anything else I can do for you?

Your Servant, Deremiah, *CPE (Customer Passion Evangelist)
 
Posted by: thinkmor Accepted Answer
8/11/2004 6:03 AM (CST)
Thanks for the question Blaine

I'm new to KHE and find an array of informative and expert knowledge and advice but the difference at KHE is showing a 'willingness to help and share'. I think this is what has most impressed me about KHE. My hats go out to everyone that participates on KHE - you're ALL doing a great job so thanks from all questioners!

This site is refreshing as some other sites are so constipated and some communities are really out there to impress themselves.

What I would say about the points system, IT IS competitive and encourages everyone to learn and push themselves further. It is an inherent human quality and good or bad supported by society, who is just happy being part of something nowadays?

Can the points system be looked at to show participants expertise by being given a rating rank e.g 1-5 by questioners in terms of how well the answer helped them instead of points being given to the nearest suggestion or point be split up?

But can the points be 'chipped in' for something useful? e.g. helping students in a more direct capacity through mentoring, placement etc if possible.

I just received an email about someone selling points for e.g. what the hell is that about apart from ingratiating yourself?

For me, KHE is about helping people with problems where I can bring something constructive and help in some positive way from experience but also learning lots of different things from guys like you. It's a positive and active community which is another reason I choose to try and participate when I can make the time.

What about as an idea, I forgot to suggest it to Val, is for people that to put their pictures up on their profiles - at least you'll be able to place the name to the person. We can limit the file size for easy uploading. What do you all think?

Thanks again
 
Posted by: jason.koulouras* Accepted Answer
8/11/2004 7:02 AM (CST)
Good post - so far, I have not used any of my points as the fellow members of the board have asked a lot of good questions that I have been able to get most of what I am looking for from reading all the insightful commentary and answers. Yesterday was the first time I had even checked my point balance since I joined

Cheers
Jason
 
Posted by: Ricky Accepted Answer
8/11/2004 8:29 AM (CST)
Hello.

I think the points actually help rather than hinder this forum. It's competitive (because we are all competitive--some more, some less), it's fun, it's unique, and it's motivational. I like to see that I can help someone, and the points validate that. The points also keep me coming back to see where I am in the ranking (I think I'm number 2000 or so, but I keep repeating to myself . . . "I think I can, I think I can . . . ")

Usually, I'm here just browsing, reading, & learning. Actually, even if you hardly ever see a "Ricky" response, I'm here every day. I've actually been here from Day 1 (ok, maybe it was Day 2) just like alot of the top experts. But I like to earn points when I know I've really earned them--with thoughtful (and yes, even fun) answers.

If some people feel threatened by you, that's their problem. We're all with you Jett. I may not even agree with some things you write, but my respect for you and your position has never faltered.

Hey, remember your "flawed points system" post from ages ago? For those of you who are new, let's take a little stroll down memory lane . . . (1000 points back then was like 5,000 points today. Talk about inflation)

http://www.marketingprofs.com/ea/qst_question.asp?qstID=261#1734

Ciao,
Ricky
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/11/2004 8:50 AM (CST)
Virago - I think you are right...it's a "king of the mountain" game for some. You know what, even during friend email exchanges between other experts, I have been referred to (sarcastically) as "The Almighty", "The Mighy and Powerful", "The Guru", etc. Not a very friendly context either; i.e. "I look forward to hearing more from THE GREAT AND POWERFULL JETT !!"...kinda one of those comments that make you go "hmmmmmm".

Cal - Thanks for gettin my back homey! What can I say, of course there is a certain level of ego and self-gratification involved..like your friend said "It's all about me".

This is a popular philosophy, "egoism"; it has many branches and is supported by minds such as Socrates and Thomas Hobbes Click Here for more on Egoism. Kant was able to provide a valid argument against the ideal of egoism, but it still exists.

Personally, I blame society, the Taliban, and those damn Joe Camel cigarette ads...WHY ME?!!! How could they do this?!?!!!

D-Rock - You crack me up. I love our attitude and your courage to be yourself and express your artistic style in a public forum where certain members have sent you emails asking you not to do this and/or act this way. Keep it up, man! Keep it real my brotha.

Thinkmor - Your observations and comments are well heeded. As a matter of fact, The person selling points was me! LOL. There is nothing else to do with them so I offered to sell them. MP agreed to split the cost with me so it was not pure profit. Unfortunately, a couple of...what's that other word for "donkey" or "mule"....? Anyway, they were turning it into an arguement so I shut it down and desicided to give the points away instead.

Personally, I think the point system works fine. As I stated above, one CAN climb the ladder if they possess the know-how and desire to participate. It would be nice to get a more descriptive response to my posts, but personally, I am not that interested in micro self-analysis. If I get points, then I feel like I must have been helpful. If I don't, it doesn't make me feel like a loser. I merely assume that my response was not best for that person. I cannot please everyone, nor will I attempt to. My posts are extentions of how I would react if that person was my client...and many of those responses are repeated and accepted in other questions. So I don't really feel the need to get a rating or a reason why someone didn't like my answer.

Thanks again! I really enjoy your posts...very informative and professional.

Jason - Well, congrats on discovering your points! Maybe one day we can use them for something other than questions! Thanks !
 
Posted by: NuCoPro Member Response
8/11/2004 8:55 AM (CST)
I have been a member of this forum since its inception, as I belonged to MarketingProfs before KHE was created. I have watched it morph and grow into a true world-wide information forum.

I have been both a participant and a very interested observer of all the dynamics that have occured, as I intend to replicate this forum in another industry. I have always tried to really understand what a questioner is seeking and provide information/advice that may help them.

I agree with Blaine concerning the "early days". There was a LOT of hot air flowing through here. Answers that were so academic and obtuse that they really had no relevance. Fortunately, a few of us continued to focus on trying to provide actionable suggestions and the forum started to earn a rep around the world.

As to who cares about the points, a lot of us frequent participants do. Partly this is because we realized that KHE was a great marketing tool. So it then became a question of positioning - "I have to get in the top 25, 15, 10, whatever, so I will gain street cred and promote my chances of generating new clients/projects." Along with, of course, just natural competitiveness.

Thus, while KHE has becoming a global player in the marketing information field, it also took on a secondary role of lead generation for many of the higher rated participants. While this is an open "secret" with us frequent responders, it isn't known to the majority of KHE members. Which brings me to my conclusion - - - - - - - -

I'm opposed to this type of question on the grounds that the participants are almost exclusively in our inner circle and we just end up awarding points to each other. I'm not opposed to the question, but to the awarding of huge numbers of points to responders. These questions should reside in the "About Our Forum" category and that little or no points should be awarded for them. Let's keep KHE as an "on call" marketing service for people the world over who need our assistance.

I feel we have to very careful to maintain the openness and helpful environment we have created in KHE. I want a new marketing person in Canada, a student in India, or a small businessman in Pakistan to fell welcome and want to seek our advice, and am concerned that we don't polarize around internal squabbles - we certainly don't want to start "red & blue states" in here! (Reference the US presidential election, for those of you outside the US)

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :)
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/11/2004 8:55 AM (CST)
Ricky - You know I love you and your fun atittude! And I appreciate your kind words.

Thanks for bring up the Flawed Point System question! That was a good one.

I suggest all new people to click on the link below in order to see some of the previous discussion on points...especially all of you who have a problem with the points!!!!

http://www.marketingprofs.com/ea/qst_question.asp?qstID=261#1734
 
Posted by: Den E V Accepted Answer
8/11/2004 9:05 AM (CST)
Points are a great way to validate how useful individual postings are. Points are not the driving factor in KHE participation though.

Sharing and acquiring knowledge is far more valuable than points. I see little value in purchasing points - I prefer to earn points through participation. I answer posts only when I believe my answers can help. I post questions only when I really think that the KHE can provide help - as evidenced by the many posts that I have not contributed to, but have still gained a new piece of insight or knowledge.

As for expert points, I'm often disappointed when point awards are evenly distributed amongst the total number of responses for a given post. While I understand that every response is appreciated, I don't think that this definition of fairness (I call 'mediocrity creep') is the most effective means to glean the best that each individual has to offer.

Award points based on the responses that furthter along your thinking the best or contribute the most to solving / answering your problem / question. That is the 'fairest 'way to contribute and to award.

Thanks for giving me an excuse to get that one off of my chest. Sweet!
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/11/2004 9:07 AM (CST)
Gary - Thanks for you views. You are right. It has turned into a lead gnerator for many of the members.

However, regarding the "inner circle" topic, this is why the "About our Forum" section was created...so people can post questions and discuss the forum vs. marketing issues.

Nobody is excluded. ANYONE is welcome to comment in this section and have the chance to earn points. If I move it to "Strategy", where more people will see it, Val will just move it back into this section.

Anyway, Thanks again for your participation!
 
Posted by: aosterday* Accepted Answer
8/11/2004 9:09 AM (CST)
A haiku about points:

Pour your points on me
Sweet validation - I'm smart!
Ephemeral points

Anyway, I see points as "Thank You's" from often desperate people who have been helped by experts like Blaine. and I feel that when Blaine unloads some big points, he makes it interesting and fun. Points don't necessarily equal expertise, they reflect effort; specifically the effort of those, like Blaine, who have made this forum such a valuable resource. Who's whining about points anyway? That's weak.
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/11/2004 9:10 AM (CST)
Den E V - You are welcome! Just for the record...the points purchase was for QUESTION points, not expert pints. So if someone buys points, it does not affect their rank.

BTW - I always enjoy reading your contributions!
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/11/2004 9:12 AM (CST)
Andrew -Nice haiku!

we obviously see things from the same POV. Thanks for your kind words about my posts. I usually try to make it a bit interesting...
 
Posted by: Deremiah *CPE Accepted Answer
8/11/2004 9:16 AM (CST)
Jett, (just learn to Love them)

You make a very valid point that I've picked up to periodically from some experts responses making reference to you. But just learn to Love them. It appears as though some live to be condescending instead of up lifting. But just learn to Love them. Some people have been negative so long that they don't even recognize when their being dis-couraging but just learn to Love them. We have to be careful about the dislikes we have about people. Jett I've learned that the sarcastic responses have to be laughed at in order to place these things into a category that reflects our value for what they really mean to us. But more than anything we just have to learn to Love them. Keep on Loving them man. Is there anything else I can do for you? Is there even a small thing that I can do for you today that will show you how much I love you?

Deremiah>Blaine "I LOVE YOU MAN"

Radio Announcer> right now I'm going to play an olde but goode "What The World Needs Now" Is Love, sweet Love. No not just for some but for everyone".

Your Servant, Deremiah, *CPE (Customer Passion Evangelist)
 
Posted by: NuCoPro Member Response
8/11/2004 9:25 AM (CST)
Although anyone CAN participate in this type of questions, 95% of the KHE members won't because it has no relevance for them and they don't understand the issue. Therefore, participation is naturally filtered to the inner circle, so we DO just end up awarding points to each other.

I have seen and participated in actual marketing questions you have posed with larger point values. I feel that you or anyone else should be able to offer whatever points you want for marketing related questions. I just don't think questions on the forum should have points associated with them. While we may be either helping to improve KHE or discussing philosophical issues, we aren't doing anything to respond to marketing issues, so awarding points in this regard just doesn't make sense to me.
 
Posted by: Deremiah *CPE Accepted Answer
8/11/2004 9:33 AM (CST)
Blaine,

All I'm really saying is that the points are a great score keeping mechanisim but when I get done to the CORE BELIEF of ( ((why)) ) --I'm here-- at KHE it's (to LOVE people by helping them) when I share hard earned experience I've gained from bumping my head against the wall of life at no cost to them. Again what people do with the points is totally up to the individual and the creators of MarketingProfs. Go for it Blaine.

Your Servant, Deremiah, *CPE
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/11/2004 9:47 AM (CST)
Gary - Do me a favor...take a look at the questions about our forum that had no point reward and compare the responses and response rate to this one.

Whether it's about the forum or not, people are motivated to be rewarded for their time and input.

If I am wrong...please prove it.

D-Rock - Keep me smiling! Hey, I know what you can do...you can buy one of my paintings!
 
Posted by: jose04 Accepted Answer
8/11/2004 9:49 AM (CST)
Hello Jett

Did those experts express these concerns, or is this your assumption about them?

Either way its okay, just thought i should ask.

I can talk for myself. I'm answering because of the 5000 points, jett and that the question is most interesting, not necessarily in that order.

KHE is a lovely forum to exchange ideas, learn, and feel good about sharing. I'm in it because i feel that there is someone benefitting from an expression. Its also a forum where different personalities meet together, share their differences too, apart from their expertise. It makes me try hard to give your best. It also feels good to earn ones points. To a newcomer like me i also see in this forum,subtle but clear clash of minds and may be an espapist route to some of our frustrations. I guess only self restraint can be a reasonable way to optimise on this. I guess our discussion moderator too has a role.

This is where the experts play an important role, to take leadership (as shown by you, by raising questions for the common interest--i do appreciate that), nurture a new comer to the forum (make them feel good-despite their shortcomings) etc. Leaders pave the way for the followers--to emulate and grow--the community--society grows. So, hats off to the KHE experts. They score high on these grounds--they too answer the small value questions.

Until jasons response, your question has made 16 members write 2980 words,going at 186 words each, on an average--and its just about 10 hours since the post. Leaders, points and newsy questions make the KHE community, and their responses.

Being a newcomer i'm enjoying the process, the challenges and the expertise. Its a great experience. The stealing points phenomenon, though shocking is not too surprising, but i feel sad that we may have lost out on a process of reform for the errant behaviours. WHo's perfect anyway.

Thanks again for a thought provoking question!!

Hope these thoughts help!!
 
Posted by: Deremiah *CPE Accepted Answer
8/11/2004 9:58 AM (CST)
Jett,

Shoot me some images or send me to a website either way I'm interested.

Your Servant, Deremiah, *CPE
 
Posted by: NuCoPro Member Response
8/11/2004 10:19 AM (CST)
Blaine,

Your response to my last post, basically answered your question. People really care about the points. :)

I have to admit that a principle motivation for me is learning what to do and not to do when I clone this process into another industry. I've even kidded Val and Allen about catching all the arrows for me!
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/11/2004 10:53 AM (CST)
Gary - I never said people don't care about points. My question is why are some (like you) so concerned about what I do with my points?

Jose - Thank you, Thank You, thank you! What can I say? You took the words right out of my mouth!
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/11/2004 10:57 AM (CST)
Gary - Are you concerned that I may give the points to Deremiah, putting him ahead of you? If so, why? Do you think he does not deserve it?

I am posting the question, I am offering the points, and I will decide who gets them, just like any other asker.
 
Posted by: NuCoPro Member Response
8/11/2004 11:14 AM (CST)
Blaine,

I really don't care who you give points to for this question and in spite of what you think, I don't care what you do with the points you have accumulated. My comments were not about you, because other members have also posted questions like this in the past. I just happen to be opposed to the general idea of awarding points for basically discussing the KHE forum. I may be a minority of one in that regard.

I always try to be very careful in what words I use when communicating, because I don't want to upset you. However, I guess I failed in that context. I was just trying to post a lighthearted response, and you took it as an attack. Sorry, I won't kid around anymore with this.
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/11/2004 11:18 AM (CST)
Gary- FYI- I'm not the only one you rub the wrong way on a regular basis.

Don't bark little doggy unless you intend to bite.
 
Posted by: thinkmor Accepted Answer
8/11/2004 11:30 AM (CST)
Blaine

Thanks for your feedback and your comments are reciprocated.

It is very entertaining when you post your 'curve balls' as DCPE mentions.

I just can't believe how many people are getting heated about this points issue!!! Get a life for God's sake!

I reckon you should ask everyone (who wants to - you know who you are) to write a 100 word peice as to who they think 'DOESN'T" deserve the points so they can release their anxiety and stress for good!

thanks again Blaine
 
Posted by: kwanray* Accepted Answer
8/11/2004 11:40 AM (CST)
I'm a rookie in this arena so I'm not too sure what the hell the points get to.

But i have found myself educated in the last 3 hours i have spent reading all the replies. The points really does not matter to me as i am only interested in asking questions and answering questions i think i may be of help.
 
Posted by: Deremiah *CPE Accepted Answer
8/11/2004 12:43 PM (CST)
Blaine,

Thinkmor makes a GREAT point!

And with that said and so many complaints about the points (cause I'm sure I've rubbed some people the wrong way...with a few of my poetry, rapp and song responses.)

But I still love everybody and my greatest desire is to believe that what Rodney King said can be true for us

( (( CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG )) ).

If anyone can make it to Saint Charles Illinois this Saturday I'm having the "KHE Reunion Breakfast" at 4:00 am in the morning, where I'm going to give everyone a pillow full of feathers so that we can have a great big pillow fight. After that were going to do what my Mom would make my family members do when they were upset with each other. Yess you got it if you were thinking...

***KISS & MAKE-UP***

All make-up will be supplied by Revlon. COME-oN "Where's The Love". Blaine whatever you do...don't you dare give me all the points or we're going to have the biggest online riot of all times. Everybody deserves somethiing on this question. I love you all. Everyone of my KHE Brutha's & Sista's. Have a great day!!! That's the least you deserve even if you don't get any points for this one. Who Cares ANYWAY. I keep my own point system (please don't tell Val) and on it I've got more points than some guy on the Top 25 KHE Experts (Overall) I think his name is Jett. And if you really want to know the truth underneath all that hardware and software Blaines a great guy. Okay Blaine heres one for you.

Your Servant, Deremiah, *CPE (Customer Passion Evangelist)

PS
"When little dogs are on the porch...BIG Dawgs are in the yard"
 
Posted by: Peter (henna gaijin) Member Response
8/11/2004 2:32 PM (CST)
I take this rather personally, as I believe I am one of the offenders (if not THE offender) that Jett is thinking is complaining about points. And I am disappointed that he has taken this to the open area from the private area (There are offline conversations about how to improve KHE which would provide examples of what has been said - you'd have to see those to judge whether I am "complaining", which I don't believe I am).

I have been making suggesting about points and what I think are improvements. I have been intrigued with the point system used here. Comparing to other message boards, this one gets a lot of usage, and I attribute much of that to the point system.

But, I have also seen some things go on here which I feel reduce the effectiveness of points as a way to bring people in, such as massive awarding of points just for the hell of it. I think this comes from not having a use for all the points someone can gain.

Some of the suggestions I have made include:
- stop awarding the daily points after someone has say 1000 points (these are the points given each day just for being a member). You can still gain points through answering questions. This would help increase the value of answering questions, but still allow enough points for people to post questions.
- limit maximum point value that can be awarded (both makes the list of who are 'experts' more representative of people who provide value over time, not to answering one high point question, plus helps keep someone's massive points awarded question from drowing out other question given lower point value).
- find a way to increase the value of points, perhaps by KHE making goods like imprinted mugs or premium membership available for purchase with points.

If you believe these are complaining, my apologies. My goal was to try to improve KHE. Each suggestion was done because I felt they would improve KHE in one way or another, not to improve my points. I am not after points (though of course, my ego does like that I am on the list of 'experts'), and this is shown by my having more than once asked the moderator not to award points to me (inlcuding once when Jett was giving me points).

Very disappointing - I guess that brainstorming style suggestions can not be made on the private area (that was purposedly set up to brainstorm on ways to improve KHE), less Jett will 'out' you.
 
Posted by: jcmedinave Member Response
8/11/2004 4:59 PM (CST)
There is a refrain " Only they will through stones to the tree that has fruits". Then be proud to have fruits and forgive the outside interventions.

Bye,

Juan Carlos
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/11/2004 5:34 PM (CST)
Peter - I never named you, but thanks for coming forward.

Sorry I can't shed a tear for you. Also, I'm sorry you can dish it out but can't take it. I seem to remember you openly bashing me in public by accusing me of being a point monger in my previous question.

Don't bash me in public, then whine about getting a little criticism yourself.

Remember, I never mentioned your name. You did that for us...and if you read any of the above, most of the people obviously had no idea who I was talking about. Now they do!

I refrained from using names for this very reason. So please spare us the drama of naming yourself, then accusing me of "outing" you. You "outed" yourself.

So tell me, what would you do if I gave all the points to you? Give them back? Use them? What?

If I were to award one person all of these points, it would be the oppurtunity for them to prove just how "expert" they are since it will boost you up the ranks, and like I said before, you have to work to keep it. I have done this a few times and most people drop back down the ladder almost as fast as I shot them up.

So, you would not want the chance? You complain about all the points I have, so here they are...do you want them? Can you handle it?
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/11/2004 5:38 PM (CST)
Juan - Interesting. Thank You!
 
Posted by: Peter (henna gaijin) Member Response
8/11/2004 6:32 PM (CST)
I believe you are incorrect - you outed me (and brought up subjects there from the offline discussions) in http://www.marketingprofs.com/ea/qst_question.asp?qstID=2706.

My post there about riding the bike was meant to be light hearted. You didn't take it that way, and lashed back (which is a method you seem to take with anyone you disagree with - even done to at least one other in this message thread).

On your question - I don't look at my points, so don't care if I recieve them or not. I have more points than I can use, so they have no real value for me.
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/11/2004 7:06 PM (CST)
Peter, I did not mention your name in THIS question.

I do not "attack" people who disagree with me. You did more than simply disagree, you made some pretty inflammatory allegations about me "outing" you, bringing certain subjects up in the "live"/public forum, etc.

You made an attempt to chastise me and label me as a defamatory figure. So expect a a strong reply if you are going to talk to me in that manner. Not to mention this like the 4th or 5th time you have made it a point to bring up your obsession in almost EVERY question I ask that is more than 250 points. My tolerance is wearing thin.

I don't believe the bike comment was light-hearted. You specifically stated "You really should be out riding that mountain bike instead of spending all the time earning more points than you could ever use.". Coming from the biggest whiner about points and how they are used, your comment was not taken lightly.

So not only to I earn too may points, I use them too much, or at least not the way you want me too.

Your suggestions on point caps, restrictions, etc. sound very socialist to me. Like I said before, quit worrying about my questions and start answering some of those other questions you mentioned that are getting "drown out" by my questions. Since you are so concerned, why aren't you helping them instead of wasting your time here yapping about it?

Anyway, if you feel so victimized by my candid remarks, call a crisis hotline or something. Maybe they can help you deal with it.


P.S. The above is meant to be taken in a light-hearted manner. Please do not "attack" me. LOL
 
Posted by: SRyan ;] Accepted Answer
8/11/2004 7:21 PM (CST)
Blaine, is something getting lost in translation here, even when we're all speaking the same language?

Maybe I don't have the gene for spotting sarcasm, subtle criticism, or blatant rudeness in an online forum or in an email. So far I haven't sensed that anyone, me included, has any doubt that you have earned every point that puts you on the top floor of the Expert tower.

I like hearing ideas and musings about KHE in general. The online and offline discussions about the point system haven't seemed at all like they were challenges to your status (or anyone's status except TC's, for that matter)... the conversation has mostly been about ways to measure and improve the value of responses and questions overall, not YOURS in particular.

Here or elsewhere, I like it when someone offers a suggestion or feedback to me, personally. I consider it their gift to me. Whether or not that gift FITS or FEELS RIGHT, all I can do is say Thanks, and move on.

My favorite example is the compliment I got from my grandmother years ago: "Oh, look at your hair! You know? That's the first time I've liked your hair."

I puzzled over that one for a while, and I wondered if she was delivering a brilliantly phrased insult. But you know what? She loves me, even if she an unique way of expressing it. SHE didn't deride me. I'm the one who DECIDED that it meant something derisive - or not.

Consider yourself appreciated, admired and laden with gifts from this community, Blaine! Then brace yourself for even more business than you're already handling.

- Shelley ;]
 
Posted by: dcrouch* Member Response
8/11/2004 8:03 PM (CST)
I didn't realize I'd get drama as well as marketing knowledge by participating in this Forum.
Bonus! ;)
 
Posted by: virago* Member Response
8/11/2004 8:27 PM (CST)
OK. That's enough now!

Let get back to answering and asking questions shall we? That's what we are here for, right?
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/11/2004 9:21 PM (CST)
Thanks Shelley!

And yes, let's get back to the real issue. This is the second question in a row in which the "synergy" was interrupted.

Maybe we can place a "Ban this person from responding to my question" feature..LOL.
 
Posted by: better* Member Response
8/12/2004 3:09 AM (CST)
Hi Jett, as a recent member i want first to say hallo and i hope that you are doing great..
About your question...Points means nothing, that is just a way for persons with complex and sickness to fulfill their ego. The fact that someone will give me some points in most of cases means that my answer in that moment was the best for him and not the fact that that will solve his problem. So, "thanks" can make someone happier then some silly points i think.
Maybe i am wrong, but points were never important to me..Mine points you can give to anyone, as i concerne, all i would need is...your smile..
Thanks!
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/12/2004 8:59 AM (CST)
OK. 50 responses in less than 24 hours. WOW!

I'm actually a very nice guy. Ever ounce of my heart, soul, and time goes into my clients and this forum (aside from what is reserved for God and my family). Helping people solve problems while doing what I love AND growing a business so huge that I'm having to start bringing on partners....I couldn't ask for more!

As everyone can see, if you are looking for buttered up responses, I'm not the guy for the job. Of course, I have been getting better about jumping down people's throats...believe it or not...just ask Val! Honestly, when it happens, I don't lose sleep, but a bit of regret starts to creep in later...in one form or another:

Form 1: Perhaps I was a little hard on the bloke.

Form2: Perhaps I wasn't hard enough.

At any rate, the other day, one of my clinets tlod me the following: "Blaine, I have only said this to two other men in my life; my father and my son, so please take it in such a context when I save I love you.". This was after helping him decide on some very sensitive busines decisions. You see, I have worked for this man for over 9 months now and have not received on penny. My efforts have brought his product from hisgarage to having global distributors beating down the door. His internet sales multiplied exponentially, his website is #1-#5 on google, and so on. I offered to help him for free until the business got stable enough to afford a consultant fee.

Another client could only afford half of what I quoted. He was a very passionate man with nothing more than an idea and a fist full of dollars. I accepted. Now, he has a website, an online magazine, an Editor in Chief, models, photographers, writers, PR campaigns, publicists, etc...he not only has the tools, but the courage and know-how to take on the world with his vision and 100% more focus and confidence than he had before.

What's my point? Even though I may occasionally come across as a mean asshole, that is only one small crumb off the bigger piece of who I am.

Thanks to everyone who can see through and tolerate the negatives, and recognize the positives.

To those who cannot, just go way...unless you want another earful.

 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/12/2004 9:01 AM (CST)
Better - Thank you for your spirited response. I feel...well...BETTER!!
 
Posted by: cal* Accepted Answer
8/12/2004 9:11 AM (CST)
Cal - Thanks for gettin my back homey! What can I say, of course there is a certain level of ego and self-gratification involved..like your friend said "It's all about me".

cal> Cal's philosophy (at this time): There's a couple other sayings that suggest to me the range of self-interest people live by; from 'enlightened self-interest', to pretty much self-interest only. Some go more for "The more I do for others, the more I do for myself", while others go more for "The more I do for myself, the more I do for myself". Most people have their moments in each camp.

-------------------

This is a popular philosophy, "egoism"; it has many branches and is supported by minds such as Socrates and Thomas Hobbes Click Here for more on Egoism. Kant was able to provide a valid argument against the ideal of egoism, but it still exists.

cal> Thanks, Blaine. One thing I keep in mind with 'valid arguments' is Godel's Theorem with regards to being able to prove the axioms on which something is based. (I remember posting that to you somewhere.)

------------------

Personally, I blame society, the Taliban, and those damn Joe Camel cigarette ads...WHY ME?!!! How could they do this?!?!!!

cal> Refer to my "The more I do for myself, the more I do for myself" above. :)

cal
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/12/2004 10:13 AM (CST)
Cal - Thanks for bringing up Godel's Theorem. I didn't want to get to "deep" since it is all a collaboration of perpsectives anyway (relativity?).

I think the topic of egosim is interesting. It suggests that even Mother Theresa was not purely samaritan...because she HAD to receive some kind of reward; whether it be personal satisfaction by pleasing God, warm and fuzzy feelings, Nobel Prize, global recognition, "saint" status, or whatever. No matter how much or little you give, you always get "something" in return. Interesting looking glass.

Yeah, that Joe Camel...I wanted to be just like that camel...looking cool while smoking cigarettes. Now they are using 1920's and 30's swing dancers...I went out and bought the hat, chain, fly jacket and everything! LOL.
 
Posted by: Jett* Author Response
8/13/2004 2:02 PM (CST)
Thanks to everyone for contributing to this thread.

I have an important statement regarding the the drama/dispute between Peter and I.

With so many strong minds "cooking in the kitchen" , there is bound to be a certain level of disagreement. Both Peter and myself are very strong-willed, opinionated people who at times, disagree to the point of inflammation.

Hving that been said, I am VERY impressed and appreciative of Peter's knowledge, creative POV, and contributions to this site. In no way, shape, or form is my dipute with him to be interpreted as a negative perception of his abilitiy or expertise. Believe it or not, I like Peter. His input is invaluable to this forum and I look forward to more of his insight,opinions, and advice...even if I don't always agree.

The dispute you witnessed in the thread above is an excellent example of how this forum allows people to speak their mind, get "pissy", and come to a resolution in a spontaneous fashion. We are all professionals, and pros will lock horns every once in awhile. It's the beauty of open discussion.

Although, I did not award Peter any points, I should have. For that, I apologize and will attempt to rectify via the MP staff.

For the record, I made this last post on my own accord. Ny no means was I asked to "reconsile" by the staff or any other person. Only through hindsight did I come to the conclusion the above statements and clarifications were necessary.

Keep up the good work Peter!
 
Posted by: Deremiah *CPE Member Response
8/13/2004 5:54 PM (CST)
Blaine,

My moma would be proud of you:-) She always loved it when after a squabble we kissed and made up. You're a GREAT MAN!

Your Servant, Deremiah, *CPE (Customer Passion Evangelist)
 


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