Question

Topic: MProfs PRO Seminar Q&A

Social Media Slowpokes With Paul Chaney

Posted by Valerie Witt on 6/19/2010 at 7:31 PM ET 1000 Points
Welcome seminar attendees! Continue the conversation started during the June 24 MarketingProfs Pro seminar. This is the place to post your questions for presenter Paul Chaney and for each other.

To all other KHErs: You're welcome to participate in this discussion too! Seminar attendance is not required.

SEMINAR INFORMATION:
Social Media Slowpokes: It’s Not too Late to Connect with Your Customers Online -- on June 24 at 12pm ET
https://www.marketingprofs.com/marketing/online-seminars/252

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RESPONSES

  • Posted by Jay Hamilton-Roth on 6/22/2010 at 8:57 AM Accepted
    It's easy to focus on big companies that succeed in social media. How about providing examples of small companies that failed doing social media, with an analysis of why, and specific steps for turning around their efforts (ideally, quickly/affordably).
  • Posted by annalisa on 6/24/2010 at 1:34 PM Accepted
    What is the better approach when you are a decentralized organization (university) - one central Facebook page, Twitter account - or various accounts. I struggle with this a lot!
  • Posted on 6/24/2010 at 1:43 PM Accepted
    Paul, can you restate your process for working with a client that is new to social media? It was nice and succinct. Or anyone who was quick enough to write it down... Thanks!
  • Posted by Paul Chaney (Speaker) on 6/24/2010 at 1:52 PM Accepted
    @Jay - I can answer that question with a personal experience. A company I worked for as Internet marketing director was never able to fully maximize the value of social media for one very specific reason, no one other than me got on board.

    Even though I made a number of attempts to build a case for social media engagement across departments, encourage the CEO to tweet and blog (he's a very good writer), I was never able to get their buy-in.

    As a result, my personal brand kept rising, but at the expense of the company.

    That's not to say we didn't do a number of projects that were social-media specific, we did, some of which were reasonably successful from a brand-building, awareness-generating standpoint. But, the day-in/day-out real work of social media engagement was left to me. And that was a fail in my estimation.
  • Posted by Paul Chaney (Speaker) on 6/24/2010 at 1:58 PM Member
    @annalisa - In terms of whether you should use one fan page/Twitter account, etc, or multiples, should be determined by constituencies. Is there enough of an individual "brand" built with each of these different divisions to mandate a separate page or account? If so, then do that. If not, then a centralized page is the place to start. In fact, that's how I would suggest you start...with one, then branch out from there as the need arises.

    Unfortunately, there is no hierarchical structure in Facebook so far as fan pages are concerned. Therefore, there is no way to effectively tie different pages together except by "favoriting" them. You can use a central page to post links from the other sites as a way to provide a central clearinghouse of information from the other pages.
  • Posted by kimobert on 6/24/2010 at 1:59 PM Accepted
    Hi Paul & Group
    I'm responsible for the marketing of an apartment management company. We have 35 different apartment communities. The property brand is primary with the corporate brand secondary. How can we best utilize FB to connect with the greater communities? Currently the property managers post availability, current rental specials, etc., but their "friends" are all industry people (other community managers, etc.)
    Like @analisa, I struggle with this a lot!
  • Posted by Paul Chaney (Speaker) on 6/24/2010 at 2:05 PM Member
    @charlenesansone - My process is as follows:

    1. I send them a brief questionnaire that serves as the starting point for creating a client needs analysis.

    2. Once the questionnaire has been completed and returned to me, I do a kick-off meeting via phone to discuss their responses and dig deeper.

    (The above helps me to understand what their marketing goals/objectives are, who their market is, and where that market may have a presence online. Very often, just by knowing that information, I can make judgments about the tools/tactics necessary for more effective engagement on their part.)

    3. I start listening via reputation monitoring tools. I listen for who is talking, what they are saying and where they are saying it. I determine the share of voice (how much is being said) and tone of voice (sentiment toward the brand).

    4. Once I have all the above in place, I can put together for them (or with them) a social media engagement plans that outlines the tools/tactics needed to begin the conversation. This also involves pulling together ROI/measurement/conversion elements that are specifically tied to their stated objectives.

    5. If possible, I go back some time later (six months for ex.) and do another round of listening, and all the while I'm monitoring Google Analytics and other tools to help determine whether the approach we're taking is working in terms of meeting stated objectives. If not, then we go back to the drawing board.

    That's about it!
  • Posted by annalisa on 6/24/2010 at 2:46 PM Member
    Thanks ever so much! That is exactly the advice I needed!
  • Posted by Anne Burkauskas, MProfs on 6/24/2010 at 3:42 PM Accepted
    The on-demand recording has been posted on the site. I've also put up two sets of slides -- one with 6 slides per page which is ideal for note-taking, and the other is 1 slide per page which will help you zoom in on a particular slide. I wouldn't suggest printing these 89 pages though!
    www.mprofs.com/mat252

    Thanks again, Paul -- today's seminar was great!
  • Posted by Paul Chaney (Speaker) on 6/24/2010 at 5:16 PM Member
    @kimobert - You do have a dilemma on your hands. Do each of your properties have FB fan pages? Is there also a corporate brand page? And, are all the apartment managers responsible for keeping their respective pages updated?

    As to reaching their respective communities, several tactics come to mind. First, I'd make sure residents were aware of the presence of the page and encouraged to become fans. If not fans, at least make sure residents were aware of the page so they could check it from time to time. Make it the sole source for news and updates. (Information that is for residents only could be emailed via the mailing option in the fan page, but that mandates residents become fans.)

    I would encourage the use of advertising within Facebook. It is highly targeted and dirt cheap to do, especially if targeting a smaller geographic area.

    As apartment managers build a fan base of residents, you might consider doing contests or offering rewards to encourage residents to share the page with their friends who live in the community.

    Apartment managers could also use FB search to find others who live in the area and friend them, then invite those people to become fans. That's a little bold I admit, but worth a try.

    I would couple FB engagement efforts to Twitter. Often, those who favor use of Twitter don't actively use FB and the other way around. Yet, both can be aligned channels carrying the same information.

    Finally, I would be sure and add a custom page or two on each fan page with information about the complexes presented in a nice, graphic format. Have a call-to-action tied to it, like a "more info" form, which can be tied to a CRM database and/or email marketing platform.

    I hope that helps.



  • Posted on 6/25/2010 at 10:50 PM Accepted
    Paul... I really enjoyed your presentation. Lots of great info.

    I'm having trouble getting adoption within my organization. It's not that the business is against social media, it's that the experts on staff who would be the "face" of our social media activities haven't bought into the idea. They're from an older, slow to adopt new technologies, background but our customers are very much using social media to communicate with each other. I would do it myself but the interaction really needs to be with my on-staff experts and not myself for credibility-sake. Another challenge is that our competition isn't doing it... So I don't have any concrete evidence that it will work for our very specific niche.

    Do you have any recommendations on how to get internal stakeholders excited about interacting with customers online... Without giving them a set schedule on how often they need to login to Twitter and post updates. ;-)

    Thanks
    Zack
  • Posted by Paul Chaney (Speaker) on 6/25/2010 at 11:12 PM Member
    @zack - My response: Set the adoption of technology aside for the moment (since that is obviously not going to be something they're interested in), and find what would motivate them to being more responsive to customers. Admittedly, it's a psychological ploy.

    "Without giving them a set schedule..." Maybe that's where you have to start...by holding their hand. You suggest they are not opposed to the idea of engaging with social media, just not motivated to be pro-active about it. So, take the lead! Shepherd them. Champion the project. Is that a responsibility you could shoulder? Is it within your purview or aligned with your job description or role within the company?

    How about a frank one-on-one discussion with each of them (not in the office preferably, but in a more relaxed environment), and ask them what it would take to get them involved in the process. For each one, the motivation will be different.

    Again, take technology out of the equation for the moment and find what inspires them, what motivates and excites them. People love to talk about their passion. Then you equip them with the tools to make it happen.

    It may not sound "corporate," but you have to woo them. Psychology first, technology second. Make sense?
  • Posted by Gary Bloomer on 6/28/2010 at 10:03 AM Accepted
    Dear Paul,

    This Isn't a question, it's more of a request to business owners who are involved in, or who are thinking of getting involved in social media in the hope that social media is going to drive their sales curve through the roof.

    Here's my request: stop selling.

    Stop using social media to sell.

    Or, more to the point stop trying to use social media to sell.

    Yes, I know: heresy. But actually, no it's not.

    Selling is not what social media is for and it's not the way to use social media to help your business. Here's why:

    No doubt most people reading this have heard the mantra "the money's in the list". The thinking behind this is the bigger your list, the more money you'll make.

    Basically, this assertion is flawed because it's based on fuzzy logic.

    The money is NOT in the list.

    The money is in the bank accounts of the people on the list. And those bank accounts are controlled by people that make decisions based on emotion, logic, good feelings, gut instincts, and perceptions about resources, supplies, and suppliers that are good, helpful, useful, integrated, and genuine and those that are not.

    The difference is subtle and it's easily overlooked.

    However, it's an important difference and in social media, it's often the thing that makes the difference between little or no profit and huge financial returns.

    Until the owners of small businesses sit down and take the time to build a solid relationship WITH those people, a relationship that talks to those people about their needs, their desires, their concerns, and their requirement for effective business solutions, that's where that money will stay: in those people's bank accounts.

    It's for this reason that I'm suggesting people stop selling.

    If all you're using social media for is to pitch goods and services, you might see results at first, but over time, those results will level off and then fall because you'll have failed to see the big pink elephant in the middle of the room: social media might well be the latest shiny object, but it's not new and it's not about the technology, it's about relationships.

    And fundamentally, ALL marketing relies on the relationship, not on the list and not on the technology behind the list.

    Over the last four months I've increased the acceptance rate of my friend requests on Facebook alone by over 1,234% ... not by selling, but by being cool with people—by reaching out and saying hi, great to meet you, what do you do and how can I help you do more of it?

    As a business owner, before you can sell people your stuff—your goods and services, your products and widgets, you've got to sell YOURSELF. You've got to show people that you're genuine, up front, BS free, and that you've got their interests in mind and not your own.

    This takes time because all worthwhile, long-term relationships take time. In the social world, when people come along to us and only want something out of us without giving anything in return, our automatic reaction is to back away and to run for the hills.

    The same rule applies in business and the same rule applies in social media. So guys, if you want to see your profits increase for the long haul, put your relationships first and help people to get what they want. In time and in turn, they'll then help you get what you want.

    And why will this happen? Because you stopped selling them on your products and because they bought you, not the goods and services you were touting. It's for this reason that when a great sales person leaves one company to move to another, often, that person's best accounts move with them.

    I hope this helps.

    Gary Bloomer
    The Direct Response Marketing Guy™
    Wilmington, DE, USA

  • Posted by Paul Chaney (Speaker) on 6/28/2010 at 10:45 AM Member
    Gary,

    I love the passion behind your words...words which are well taken. It's good advice.

    Having been involved in social media before it was called that, I can testify to the power of relationships to build a business.

    That being said, I've been on the other side as well, the side where the CEO is asking where the all the sales these relationships were supposed to generate were.

    As much as it pained me to admit, they weren't there. And they weren't there for one very simple reason -- often, conversations alone are insufficient to turn a relationship into a sale.

    Don't get me wrong...I don't think you should use the conversation to sell. I do believe you can align conversional elements alongside the conversation to serve as a sales channel.

    Case in point: Chris Baggott, founder and CEO of Compendium Blogware, advises his clients to use the blog sidebar as a location for conspicuously placed calls to action -- whitepaper downloads, newsletter subscriptions, ecommerce, etc.

    Chris advises not to use the main column of the blog to sell, not in the editorial at least. Keep that informationally-oriented. I heartily concur.

    But, what if people, in their Google searches, happen across my blog, read a post or two and then leave. What has been accomplished? Am I hopeful they will remember the source and return to it? Sure.

    But, how much better to have a call to action placed alongside what I hope serves as very informational, enlightening, education content. If, because they are interested in my content, readers can subscribe to my newsletter or an RSS feed so that its sent to them, how much better. In my view, that's the best of both worlds.

    You're not using social media itself to sell, but bringing in sales channels alongside it.

    Now, I know there are some companies who get all the business they could ever need by virtue of simple engagement inside social media. I know many others (small businesses mostly) who don't experience that benefit.

    Lastly, let me clear in that I'm not a fan of "sponsored conversations." I believe they have the capacity to undermine the twin cornerstones of social media - authenticity and transparency. It is those two attributes that truly give social media its power.
  • Posted by steven.alker on 6/30/2010 at 9:20 AM Accepted
    Dear Paul Anne and Val

    That’s a good topic for a seminar but apart from a whole series of individual case studies and nothing to link them together such as an analysis and conclusions based on fact, stats and good business logic (Rather than “I had a client who---) then there’s not an awful lot for B2B marketers to take away which is applicable to their business and again, apart from some damned good examples, little which I would say is a foundation for B2C enterprises.

    I initially ignored social media for business because there appeared to be little which chimed with me selling or marketing £30,000 CRM systems and the same went for about 100% of my 750 clients. I also doubted in anyone on FaceBook or Ecademy would have a clue what Sales Forecasting was about and whilst LinkedIn members might be familiar, why should they pick up my marketing there. I’m still a member of Ecademy but I have blocked most alerts from them as there is a limit to the number of web designers and neuro-linguistic-programming trainers I want to meet. I fit more into Gary Bloomer’s view but of the “What on earth” sub-section.

    Then Tim Smith who published the highly respected Wiglaf Journal (Well it’s respected at this end of MP’s but I doubt that many of your Twitter Fanatics at the Front End of MP’s would get past the first page – pity!) His media editor wrote a well researched article which covered the forthcoming importance of LinkedIn and FaceBook to traditional businesses which in the past have not gone much beyond email, websites and portals. Most reassuring for me and many of my colleagues on the KHE are the facts that according to hard research from Forrester et al we are actually just starting to chip away at the tip of a very large iceberg which if we can both discover the rules and invent our own we will be able to exploit or take advantage of in a significant way. Even more reassuring is that for those of us who have bags of sales, marketing, analytics and management experience, all our 100 year old skills are far from redundant – they are as needed as ever, it is just that in the future we will need to understand new channels of new business development, new channels of customer retention and new ways to get what our clients have wanted for the last century – more orders as a result of the products or services we sell.

    I think that there is also another point which Gary nearly made but was too polite to take forwards The best new media marketing and the best social media selling is concentrated on convincing people like me who run substantial so-called traditional businesses to invest in, er, paying for some 18 year old or yet another impassioned bloke with a shaven head to tech me the ins and outs of the new marketing and then to continue to pay whilst I put it into practice. (Apologies to all keen and energetic social marketing experts with shaven heads, but my lot with the beards and the pony tails had to put up with the wise cracks 20 years ago) I’m not interested in the social marketing industry trying to sell me social marketing. I want the experts in social marketing to tell me how it will help one of my clients sell more digital electronic thermometers and another how it will get more orders for laser interferometers.

    Just a word of caution – your and shortly our social media outlets and business networking organisations have a Tsunami of MLM rubbish heading their way, which if not checked, will put paid to serious social network marketing for business much as spam put and end to viable email marketing for new business development. LinkedIn and FaceBook and worse, Ecademy provide an open goal for the collectors of lists who would have you believe that you to can earn $44,785 from your kitchen table by signing up to a course which encourages you to get other idiots signing up for the same thing ad-infinitum. Pyramid selling and MLM is now Internet Marketing or Information Marketing. The pyramid is still there, but flatter. The collateral damage is greater and happens faster thanks to the web, but the outcome is still fixed in the same maths which makes a Ponzi scheme immoral. About 0.04% of participants will make it and success depends on where you join.

    FaceBook is like a vast shoal of vulnerable pilchards waiting for the few who are successful in this rubbish to persuade them to give up their day jobs and spend, $27, $397 and $2,995 on something which won’t make them rich and all in the name of social marketing.

    I think that your biggest challenge is going to be to differentiate yourselves from these boyos, meanwhile, my colleagues and clients will be learning, applying our knowledge and then unleashing the stored value of 200 years of experience through the new channels and winning business whilst the net savvy newcomers are trill trying to make head or tale of an ITT or a workflow!

    Good luck!

    Steve Alker
    Xspirt
  • Posted by steven.alker on 7/6/2010 at 7:33 PM Member
    Paul: Have you give up answering or is the "Old Farts" bit of MP which helped to build you to where you would like to be today, just too cantankerous to be bothered with.

    When the children have finished being satiated with instant gratification at the "Front End" of MP's offering, perhaps you should consider that the bearded elves who made their toys in the first place are easily finding new workshops where their woodworking skills are still appreciated!

    Chartered Institute of Marketing here I come, by invite and a fellowship, so what is it? So long and thanks for all the fish?
  • Posted by Paul Chaney (Speaker) on 7/7/2010 at 9:36 AM Member
    @Steve - I wasn't aware a response was needed. But, here goes. Whether we use social media for marketing or not, consumers are. They may be using the tools to talk about you, your company, products, services, industry and competition. If so, you need to be listening to what they're saying. Listening will give way to engagement.

    In your case, maybe no one is talking. If so, my advice is to jumpstart the conversation.

    In my view, using social media is less about applying a new marketing tactic (as opposed to an old one) and much more about meeting people where they are on common ground, having a meaningful dialogue that, hopefully, will lead to a business relationship. Social media just provides buyers/sellers with a way to have what one friend of mine called the "corner grocer" relationship.

    People want what's real. Social media provides a way to interact with them in a manner that is genuine, authentic and honest. It's a way to turn customers into people again, not just notches on a sales chart. I believe that's the singular quality that separates it from other forms of marketing.

    All I know is that it has been a game changer for me and for many others. For the foreseeable future, I'll stick by its virtues and continue to tout them.

    Paul

    @Randall - I reiterate what I said above. Social media is a way for you to be "real." It's a way to step out from behind the curtain of the slick marketing/advertising facade and meet people on common ground, have an intelligent discussion about the topic of concern to them which you have the knowledge, expertise and experience to address and turn a stranger into a friend and a friend into a customer.

    Nowhere do I suggest that social media is the antidote to every marketing malady, though I believe it certainly addresses problems that exist today.

    Just as any other marketing approach, social media has its qualities, but it's not the be-all/end-all. I think a combined, coordinated effort is best.

    Use and enjoy the benefits social media provides and don't rue it for those it doesn't.

    Paul
  • Posted by steven.alker on 7/7/2010 at 11:21 AM Member
    Paul - I like your style but I cannot agree with your content. For example, to engage with your market is utterly correct but to have your question closed by the moderator is embarrassing to say the least. Communication failure or do we no longer matter?
  • Posted by Valerie Witt on 7/7/2010 at 11:42 AM Author
    Hey Steve. Having the question closed by the moderator is my fault, not Paul's. I started the thread. I wanted to leave it open a bit longer so we'd have two live questions running in the new KHE category at a time ... and I didn't want to post the next one too early (but there's no seminar this week, so the delay is extra long).

    But I forgot to tell Carrie I was noodling a new process. Altogether, just me working out the best way to try to integrate KHE with our seminar program. Introducing KHE to Pro members who are unfamiliar. Experimenting.

    Best,

    Val

    P.S. btw, Kathy is booking a new seminar for September (??) about social media for small businesses as a response to this discussion thread.
  • Posted by steven.alker on 7/8/2010 at 11:14 AM Member
    Hey Val - it is about the principal of customer or potential customer communications which counts - not an erroneous closing of a question.

    The point seems to be that we are regarded somehow as dinosaurs who need educating about the B2B and B2C possibilities of engaging through LinkedIn, FaceBook and for all I know Good-Reads

    I am always open to new ideas as long as they are testable, with measurable result and a possibility of a return on investment I am open to proposals.

    Instead what I get is a proposal to sell to me, the option of using social networking, for a fee and usually without a single target or goal (You Americans would say Metrics). It is delivered by some hyper enthusiastic person who appears to have invented his own vocabulary and thinks that if he impassionate enough about it, we will somehow understand and buy-in.

    Well, I do understand and I have not yet seen a single cogent argument which demonstrably advances the B2B sales for, example, for Titanium Metal Products or Visioning Systems.

    I would be delighted to be proven that a website based on FaceBook would produce either enquiries or leads but to date, from our very considerable investment of trying the medium we have discovered that ALL the leads are from some Idiot with an MLM scheme on the net.

    Prove me or just indicate to me that I am wrong and I will be delighted!!

    As Usual

    Steve Alker

    Xspirt and Nomis
  • Posted by Valerie Witt on 7/8/2010 at 11:41 AM Author
    Hey Steve. As I said in the seminar, I am the poster child for social media slowpokes (so true, lol). So I'm the last person on earth to make any claims for or against social media in any particular application.

    Certainly there are industries and personalities and products or services that fare better than others with social media. And since it's such a new field, what we do in our content development efforts is look for experts and case studies we can learn from.

    In other words, my role here at MProfs is to create opportunities for learning and discussion. Not to convince anyone of anything. And I appreciate your contribution to the conversation!

    Val
  • Posted by steven.alker on 7/8/2010 at 9:08 PM Member
    Dear Val

    No offence intended and I hope that I do not give you any negatives because on this issue, I too want it to succeed. I am skeptical mainly of the number and quality of enthusiastic exponents who would wish to sell me a big investment in Social Marketing when all they have to offer is a bag of web2 knowledge and some fuzzy idea that the exercise will return a profit.

    Actually I believe that it will, but not because some shaven headed enthusiast of the new media (Stereotyping, I know but from Seth down they really are!) will give me enough verbal guff to participate in a program.

    After being offered nirvana fo about £1500 I thought deeply about it – what were they offering and what was the threat to our business and the business of our clients (CRM and Sales Forecasting)

    What was obvious was that there were on offer mainly words and excitement but no definable conclusions. So I at on it for a bit and tried to work out the fundamentals from ground zero. What I discovered was that rather than being on the back foot, my respected colleague Tim Smith of the Wiglaf Journal announced that we were far from being lackadaisical about the new routes to market but we wee simply scratching the tip of a Giant iceberg. Though assistance from the wise and our own efforts to invent this thing from first principals we, the gray hairs will find a different route to market than we have embraced before. In other words, once we dinosaurs connect, watch out enthusiastic youngsters because your mission is worthy, your learning curve is steep but you cannot replace (As Mgoodman states) accumulated marketing and sales knowledge by some new game which happens to be B2B social marketing.

    Here is my breakthrough - have taken your injunctions about LinkedIn and FaceBook seriously – well done. I tried to see how I could sell forecasting systems at £20,000 a pop through them an drew a blank. Then I hired a local boy who was web-wise and he showed me how, through FaceBook or LinkedIn I could pull up people who might want to engage in dialogue with me. This16 year old showed me how to track down people who might be of interest in FaceBook, LinkedIn and other sites by dong what he does – who went to your school, who went to your university. He did this to get lots of people who would go Waheeey – LOL and ha, Ha, Ha. I used it to identify 1800 people with a common background who would at least be amenable to a conversation on the phone.

    I am sure that once the enthusiastic young men with shaven heads realise that their vocabulary and their fizzy delivery do not point me to profits, that they will stop trying to impress and then offer what I and my clients need – sales and profits!

    By the way, if you are a poster girl, can we at least see your poster! Ann Handley is not reticent in this matter so please do not be so yourself.!

    Steve Alker
    Xspirt and Nomis

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