Question

Topic: E-Marketing

New Cloud Service Needs A Web Marktetng Expert

Posted by Anonymous on 8/11/2013 at 5:33 PM ET 125 Points
I have a client who will be launching a broad based cloud service next year to serve an unserved marketplace. I haven't done marketing in about a decade and the topography is radically different than 10 years ago.

The questions I am unable to answer are.

What is the best place to find someone that knows cloud based service marketing?

Should they hire directly or contract for service? and what is the rate

What questions would be best to ask an expert and how to confirm?


And probably the most critical is:

What metrics are useful to evaluate success?

Alas, let me know what you think. If I can figure out how this works I may be able to plug you directly to the client. I haven't been on here in a very long time.
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RESPONSES

  • Posted by Moriarty on 8/11/2013 at 6:04 PM Member
    To be honest, not much has changed in marketing - apart from the speed of the messaging. Those guys who sussed it all out in the 1920s like Claude Hopkins would do as well today as they did back then, and for precisely the same reasons.

    Those being that they understood their customer and their needs.

    So when it comes to "someone that knows cloud based service marketing" you need someone who understands why somebody would choose these cloud based services. If the company you're working for wants a marketer that is specifically gifted in cloud based services, it is going to be very hard to find one. Especially one that really is good with the cloud and not just saying they are to get the work.

    As to experts, they come in all sizes these days. You have Harvard MBAs and jumped up wannabes like me who don't own a dime. As to telling them apart, more important is that you get on with them and that they trust you enough to tell you when they've made a mistake.

    Evaluating success is on the basis of how many new (and good) clients are brought in and how much extra profit is generated in a reasonable amount of time. Again, this isn't something that's easy to define and is clearly dependent on the kind of customer that's wanted. However a good marketer will be able to tell you very quickly what to look out for in a good customer, and what they will be looking for in your company.

  • Posted by mgoodman on 8/11/2013 at 9:36 PM Moderator
    It's not as important that the person or firm know "cloud-based service marketing" as it is that they know Marketing. We've beat out industry experts for marketing consulting jobs many times, even when we were newbies in the industry. We explained that (a) we are quick studies, and (b) many times we see parallels to approaches that have worked in other industries that an industry insider would have missed.

    So far we have an unbroken record of success with both large, established corporate clients and smaller family-owned and start-up situations.

    I'd be happy to have a phone conversation to see if I can be helpful. If not, perhaps I can recommend someone else. Feel free to contact me using the info in my profile.
  • Posted on 8/12/2013 at 5:31 AM Member
    The charging/revenue model is more important than the delivery model. Many people the use of the term Cloud (the delivery model) and SaaS (the charging/revenue model) interchangeably. If you are using SaaS (Software as a Service) model, i.e. paying for a web-based service as you use it then your marketing needs to drive three key metrics (1) visitors to your site (2) conversion rates of visitors to paying customers and (3) average subscription per customer. You need to decide the mix of these variables (do you want a large number of customers at a very low average subscription or the other way around) and then come up with the appropriate marketing strategies and programs to achieve the KPIs. Strategies to retain customers are also important. The Business Tools Store www.businesstoolsstore.com has some good tools to help you if you using a SaaS business model.

    If you are not using a SaaS revenue model then this post is probably not relevant.
  • Posted on 8/12/2013 at 7:48 AM Author
    @ Moriarty:

    You are right that marketing has not changed if you look at the purpose. In general it is to create interest or awareness. Sales is to close and collect money.

    However the tools or channels of communication have significantly shifted in the last decade. Where print and radio/TV were primary channels a decade ago, though they were beginning to shift. Today tweets and social networks are the most powerful channels for awareness. I have even received emails for ebay items that were particularly interestingly phrased or described.

    It is my belief (and for that, it is my responsibility for my beliefs) that the way we shape our message is influenced by the communications media.

    Compounding this belief that the channel influences or even shapes the style of the message folks who have mastered print are often lost in getting their arms around the internet.

    Knowing SEO, doing SEO and being current in the latest algorithm of Google and Bing are all very different.

    Thus the questions posted...

    Spam Sorenson
  • Posted on 8/12/2013 at 8:12 AM Author
    @pat.divilly

    Yes, SaaS is the pay model and Cloud is the delivery. We have guided the client through he hosting, design, specifications, performance metrics and to some extent the pricing.

    As a software development company we often do prototyping and early stage software development. https://www.swxperts.com/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?i...

    But as in a earlier lifetime I had done marketing for technology, the communication media is no longer the same and I can't advise my client on marketing other than to help them find an expert.

    The need can be nutshelled to "How to or who can best promote an internet service using the internet as the media?"

    Thanks for your comment.
  • Posted by Moriarty on 8/12/2013 at 5:11 PM Member
    Spamz

    when you say "I have even received emails for ebay items that were particularly interestingly phrased or described." bear in mind that this was an effective tactic in newspaper and direct mail advertising in the 1890s. All email has done is speed up the delivery process. The ways to gain attention are the same now as they were then. The people who were good then would - were they still alive - be good now.

    That means the way you shape your message does not need to be shaped by the method of communication - it needs to be shaped by the people who will read it. Or not. That goes for SEO as well. I know of some folk who were wiped out by the Panda update. I also know of the clever ones who weren't. And they are immune from algorithm updates - why? because they are working the same lines as Google. Google's stated aim is to provide quality results to the input to the searchbox.

    Do what you will with backlinking or SEO techniques, nothing - and I mean nothing - will beat asking the questions your best customers ask. And then answering them concisely. Do this and you will fulfill the aim of the Google algorithm. Which means questions like "How to or who can best promote an internet service using the internet as the media?" become rather obvious. Who are the most likely people to want this service, why will they want it, and why should they choose you. That's when you can use the internet to provide the answers. You can also use any other channels too if you so choose because the principles are the same.

    If you are serious about employing a marketer, you could try Perry Marshall's office (312) 386-7459 although I have heard whispers that he's not very fast getting back to folk. I guess he's too busy just now. You can also try Vitruvian, serious PPC guys. https://www.vitruvianway.com/online-implementation

    If they can't help you, they'll know someone who can.
  • Posted by Jay Hamilton-Roth on 8/12/2013 at 5:52 PM Accepted
    I don't personally know anyone who's a Saas marketing expert, but you might want to start here: https://blog.kissmetrics.com/saas-marketers-reveal-analytics/ and https://www.womcommunications.com/solutions/saas-marketing.html

    As for questions - you want to know who they've helped with similar problems, their tactics, metrics, common problems they've seen, etc.
  • Posted by josephmcelroy on 8/13/2013 at 8:08 PM Member
    While marketers here have correctly pointed out that marketing basics remain the same, I would suggest that there are some differences of merit between now and 10 and 100 years ago. Speed has increased, Audience is fragmented, and Attention is scarce. Knowing the mechanisms to address these issues and communicate to a target does take specialized and continually evolving skills and education. I say this with a sigh as a technology marketer on the cutting edge treadmill for a long long time :) The primary marketing focus of Cloud-based service at startup (and prior) is to build a community of devoted users who are advocates. Mint.com developed a "quant-based" approach to building such a community many months in advance of its actual launch by focusing on key content needs of certain target personnas. Hubspot, Marketo, Moz, myself(humbly) etc have evolved such techniques into what is called Inbound Marketing. The basis of which is get attention naturally with good content and to gain permission to market to the content consumers, developing relationships and encouraging sharing, word-of-mouth, and viral responses. While none of this is entirely new (I recently presented on a Manufacturer from the 1800s named Cyrus McCormick who built a big company using Inbound Techniques), the scalability is entirely new...it is theoretically conceivable to have a one-to-one relationship with thousands if not millions of people that is profitable. The primary tactics of Inbound Marketing are Search Engine Marketing, Social Media Marketing, Content Marketing, Marketing Automation with Email, Conversion Rate Optimization, Engagement Marketing, and Media Relations. Not to be too self promoting, but here are some posts that might help you:
    Metrics: https://www.corporatepa.com/blogs/2013/05/community-metrics-useful-measures...
    Inbound Marketing: https://www.corporatepa.com/blogs/2013/07/the-ultimate-introduction-to-inbo...
    Attracting Prospects: https://www.corporatepa.com/lp/294-attract-more-prospects

    You probably should start with a consultant or agency and then evolve the internal resources to do Inbound Marketing. Over time, and after you reach maturity, expect to pay 2.5% to 5% of your revenue on Inbound Marketing. Startup costs vary by provider experience and skills, but can start at $1.5K to $3.5K a month and grow from there.
  • Posted on 8/14/2013 at 5:04 AM Member
    I have developed an Integrated Business-to-Business Marketing Framework that combines traditional offline and newer online marketing techniques which might fit what you are looking for; you can download it from my website resources page at https://www.marketware.biz/resources.html
    I hope this helps, get back to me if you have any questions.
  • Posted on 8/14/2013 at 11:52 AM Author
    @ Jay Hamilton-Roth

    Thank you, Excellent links and very helpful. I have passed them along - hopefully they will work.

    @ pat.divilly

    Thank you also. There is a lot of information on your site as well.

    @ Moriarty

    As this is a start up and not a tangible goods the PPC model and adwords seems premature.


    @ everyone.

    Thank you for your input. Some is appropriate in this stage of development some will be more appropriate as the software we are developing matures (scheduled around 2014 first quarter) when it enters the marketplace.

    The premise is we are developing intangible cloud services for them, targeted to internet users, so we believe marketing should be focused on reaching the users through the medium. That is where the rub lies.

    Knowing how to sell cartridge toner is clearly easier to create market distinction than a cloud service like say 'check your site for grammar,' or some user paid variant of groupon. The media and the market, in this case, are nearly the same. Perhaps this is where the traditional marketing deflects from digital marketing. Defining the product is relatively easy, differentiation and focusing on benefits is classic marketing. But building a following when there is no competitive product or potential users don't even know to seek it out, say "force field smart phone protection. Lets call it Digital Goulashes" (SaaS) that will keep your cell warm and dry to -25F and to 15 Meters well this is new.

    Some of you sent me to sites which very effectively justify the basics. Those basics being plan well, define well, track activity well, document well and so on. The questions are more like Metrics. - We know they are important, so now what are industry ranges? Which specific statistics (emphasis specific) are important to our digital goulashes model? Perhaps industry ratios would be helpful if they existed. At least for the SaaS side. What is a good standard for client acquisition?

    The problem is how to, or who to hire that can reach the folks who have a need (as an example) to protect their cell phone should it fall into a swimming pool, slide down a ski slope, tumble off a snowmobile, be run over in a bike race,or in some other way be depreciated by accident. This is a vertical service and a horizontal market issue that is Internet based. Adwords would be ignored because the market for cell force field on an SaaS isn't classified or doesn't exist.

    I am still re reading all your posts. They are informative. I am rereading because they give me insights on the second read. I think the answers I am seeking, like industry SaaS metrics, do not yet exist.

    Still reading and learning

    S
  • Posted by Moriarty on 8/14/2013 at 12:48 PM Member
    I'm glad we can be of some help here. When you say "The media and the market, in this case, are nearly the same." - the sellers and the consumers are not. The sellers have something that the consumer needs - and the consumer needs what the sellers are selling. Clarify this one issue and you'll find that Google Adwords (and more likely their display network) will work for you very nicely indeed.

    In the instances you quote - these are genuine problems that are faced by everyday folk. Phones do get dunked, run over and otherwise damaged - and the problems are not with the phones. The real issues are with the information they stored. I'll give you an example - my ex had his briefcase stolen. He wasn't worried about the briefcase - he was worried about what was in it. His address book for one. That was irreplaceable.

    You are providing a secure storage space for people like him to keep his records. It means he can have his phone trashed or smashed - and not have to go through the traumas of the loss of all those records. So whilst the adwords "market" doesn't exist, the need does. That's the power of adwords, you can invent your own niche if you want to. Google will help you establish it and the metrics very quickly.

    Are you with me on this? This is essential - it is also your business (or your clients' business).

    People like Vitruvian think like this.
  • Posted on 8/14/2013 at 2:54 PM Author
    @ Moriarty

    I do understand what you are saying. For me to understand better,

    Lets roll back the clock to say 1998 , lets leave Google and Bing and PPC and Adwords and the like in place.

    Now lets introduce Ebay in a market that does not exist. There is none, no competition and no auctions on the web. Also lets assume the web is as mature as it is, otherwise, today. How do Adwords help Ebay introduce auctions?

    In my mind Adwords do well where a product is known or where a product market is easily identified.

    Thank you for this, as stated I haven't dome any internet marketing, and this is helpful in my understanding.
  • Posted by Moriarty on 8/14/2013 at 4:13 PM Accepted
    Believe me when I say that the world of PPC is wide open. Now you take the time back to 1998.

    How about I take the time back to 1898. A hundred years before your quote. Because that's when split testing was first introduced. Split testing, by the way is a method of tuning landing pages for maximum response. Yet this was being used in newspaper ads in the late 90s. That is to say, well over 100 years before Google was ever thought of.

    So what's going on here? Nobody seems to understand the internet. Well, they didn't understand direct response marketing either. Yet guys like Rosser Reeves and Claude Hopkins would still be dining at Google's top table without even knowing how to manipulate the algorithm. By the way, they both died in the early 80s. The 1980s this time.

    Let's take a look at a few Google ads. Now as to ebay - that's a little more tricky. Most people don't use ebay having searched it on the net. Most go directly. Plus I'm a little hazy on its origins - I did know them better a few years ago and can't recall right now. Apols. Perhaps a better example of a highly competitive niche is learning English. With very expensive keywords. Not easy to get a profitable campaign out of. Yet ... take a look at the ads that are running this evening here in Utrecht:

    Learn English Faster‎
    www.effortlessenglishclub.com/7rules‎
    108 seller reviews

    7 Rules to Speak Better English.
    Powerful Email Course. Sign up now!‎
    Advanced English Courses‎
    www.premiertaaltraining.nl/‎

    Improve your English with
    private and group courses‎
    Nachtegaalstraat, Utrecht
    06 82009182
    Speak English Fast‎
    www.deepenglish.com/FastEnglish‎

    Learn How To Speak Fluent English.
    Get Our Free Email Course. 7 Days.‎
    Free English Learning‎
    www.zoeken.nl/Free+English+Learning‎

    Just how many of them speak to their customer directly? How come none of them are in Dutch?

    Rule number 1 in direct response marketing: address your customer. This was established well before the first world war - so why isn't it being applied today? For myself I'm getting to the bottom of it, thanks to some of the weaker minded questioners here on MP. Because they complain when I get "personal". You may find this an odd thing to say, however it remains true that most businessmen prefer the security of their desks and what they know to actually doing business with live humans - who might not like them.

    Or they might make a mistake and make a fool of themselves.

    Well get this: making mistakes is a big part of Adwords marketing. A click through rate of 5% is considered outstanding. That means you're getting it 95% wrong! Even ninjas like Glenn Livingston who has gotten CTRs (click through rate) of 45% is missing out on HALF his audience. Mistakes are the norm in Adwords.

    Isn't it nicer to be able to brag that you've got a TV commercial running than admit that you're missing out on 55% of your target audience?

    Issue number 2: not one of these advertisements speaks to the desires of the person who entered that search term. NOT ONE. That's how Glenn gets his incredible CTRs; he's also a master psychologist too. Anyway, it's why most people can't budge the 5% limit. Because as soon as you get the idea of how to speak to a customer's desires, that threshold is easily broken. I'm rubbish at Adwords, yet I can get CTRs well into the 20% region. I do stupid things too like advertising as a copywriter using keywords like "Louis Armstrong". Now tell me if that's not outside-the-box thinking.

    You can Google Glenn Livingston or visit one of his sites here: https://www.makethembuy.com/index-4-95-39.html

    The real issue with Adwords is that it is effective where YOU have identified the market. With direct response marketing, everything runs backwards. You can start out not knowing anything about your market, set up a display network campaign and get info. Reverse engineering that will give you the necessary information to set up an adwords campaign. Adwords is for those who are looking for what you're selling - or asking questions about it. The display network (part of Adwords) is where they're shown in blogs, websites, online newspapers and magazines. My guess is that Ebay started using banner advertising across the web - (the fore runner of the display network).

    Does this clarify the issue a little?


  • Posted on 8/16/2013 at 7:49 AM Author
    @ Moriarty

    I believe I got it. You say:
    1, hang a website.
    2, buy adwords.
    3 (opptional) hire someone like Glenn Livingston to manage it.

    Some things you mention however are distractions, massive click through for wrong words. Click through is not sales. We have all experienced misrepresented ads on Google and Bing for search entered.

    So we can leave it there. I add this just for dialog my client has the patent so I suppose I can discuss it.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`


    My client has invented a psyco-optical transpacitor. It is a device that attaches to a 'smart phone'. Like a dime sized thing that plugs into the audio output. When you connect to the SaaS server you can run a program that broadcasts a psyco-optical signal which effects everyone within 3 meters. You pick the image you want to broadcast on the server - buy $1/min of broadcast and everyone inside the broadcast sphere sees you as the image you selected.

    You can't become invisible but I have tried it and became Kevin Bacon, Brad Pit, Lance Armstrong, while my wife has been Hillary Clinton, Donna Rice and Barbara Walters.

    Now the programming was not easy, It took us 4 years, and we did it as a JV when he ran out of money. But he owns the invention of the psyco-optical transpacitor.

    So lets put the product aside and address marketing. Psyco-optical transpacitors do not exist in the marketplace and the service it provides has no awareness. Leaving the moral issues aside (bank robbers - though it does not work on video cameras) and although we can name it whatever we want, the key words don't yet exist. The market are unaware of anything like this. Is it useful to people? Sure.

    So with a limited budget for marketing, finding the most cost effective tool or channel for marketing is tough.

    So again thanks, Your info is clearly helpful for something not so obscure. I will reference your thoughts after launch as a vehicle to continue awareness.


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