Question

Topic: Customer Behavior

Is "value" Dying?

Posted by Gary Bloomer on 9/1/2012 at 1:10 PM ET 5000 Points
This question relates to the concept of value and the sense in contributing highly specialized knowledge and advice to this forum that is increasingly accepted grudgingly, or that is sometimes met with resistance because an increasing number of questioners show up having carried out little research or due diligence (which includes having no marketing plan, no business plan, no concept of positioning and conditioning, and so on).

1. If questioners posting on this forum were paying for the responses they receive, do you think they'd come to the table better prepared?

2. Is the nature of the generosity of the contributors to this forum being taken advantage of?

3. Is the content offered considered less valuable by questioners simply because they're getting what frequently amounts to thousands of dollars worth of information for free?

I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts. Once I close this question I'll be retiring from MarketingProfs for the foreseeable future.
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RESPONSES

  • Posted by Jay Hamilton-Roth on 9/1/2012 at 1:51 PM Accepted
    I think for the most part, people are well-intentioned, but unschooled about the "big picture" for their marketing. They come for a name, tagline, or something else "catchy", and think that with this idea they'll be off and running. And perhaps they will be.

    But if they were to come into a room where a bunch of us were hanging out, and ask their question, they'd likely get a number of questions face-to-face to help us better understand what they're asking (and why). And it would seem natural to have a give-and-take in this way.

    Unfortunately, many people come asking their question and wanting their answer, and are unprepared for further questions. I often need more information to help guide my responses - either I feel a bigger underlying question needs answering or I simply answer the question at face value.

    To answer your specific questions:

    1. Yes. Free advice tends to be woefully under-appreciated.

    2. Not usually. While there are exceptions, I believe everyone is truly asking questions from where they're at.

    3. Perhaps. The problem is that a stranger is asking a question to a group of strangers. Very few people who ask a question stick around and take the time to research the people who answer questions. Without any sense of trust/confidence, it's hard to know if anyone's expertise is truly valuable.
  • Posted by SteveByrneMarketing on 9/1/2012 at 5:31 PM Accepted
    A few more thoughts:

    1. It seems like "paying for responses" would be something of a trade off - better quality posts and a lower volume of posts. Still it's worth MP's consideration.

    2. I don't feel taken advantage of by people who post questions. If they have attitude or whatever, then that's where they're coming from in the moment. I don't know them or their situation. We all have the option to respond anyway we choose. And we are posting for everybody who reads the posts, not just for the questioner who initiated the post.

    3. Yes, anything free is usually perceptively lowered in value. Perhaps we could include an estimated dollar value associated with each of our answer posts, lol at what would happen then :)

    Gary, your question begs another question: What does the MP marketing plan say and how does the KHE forum fit into the over all planning?

    You certainly have earned a break. Look forward to seeing your posts upon return. Have a good one!!

    Steve
  • Posted by mgoodman on 9/1/2012 at 5:41 PM Accepted
    If this were MedicalProfs instead of MarketingProfs I suspect the folks asking the questions would have greater value for responses from medical professionals than they do from marketing professionals.

    Marketing just doesn't command the respect that medicine does. And sometime marketers don't deserve the respect. Let's face it: there are a lot of folks out there who profess to be marketers who are really graphic designers or advertising copywriters. There are not a lot of folks pretending to be medical doctors who have not finished medical school.

    There are a lot of newbie business folks out there who assume that marketing is just the glitzy stuff you sprinkle on your product when it's ready for market. So it's not surprising that folks come here to see if we can come up with a catchy tagline. ("Isn't that what marketing folks do?")

    They're not taking advantage of us. They just don't know any better. And anything we can teach them will help them do a better job with their businesses. And if they don't like the lesson, it hasn't cost them anything and they can ignore us.

    Meanwhile, MarketingProfs has given us a chance to teach and learn from each other, and to demonstrate the professionalism that characterizes REAL marketing.
  • Posted by chiron34 on 9/1/2012 at 8:46 PM Accepted
    Gary,

    Speaking as a greenhorn novice trying to establish a small consultancy business, I have always appreciated the down to earth, pragmatic advice you give to questioners. Many times, questioners have raised issues about aspects of marketing in particular and business operations in general that often have never occurred to me. So I have found your comments and advice to be of immense value to me personally as an information resource.

    Gary, put simply, from a personal perspective, just because your advice, and of course the advice of forum stalwarts such as Jay Hamilton-Roth and mgoodman is free, does not denigrate it in any way. I particularly regard your insights as gold.

    So, as a person who has asked a few questions and received sage advice, and one who has also answered a few questions, could I just say this in relation to your three questions:

    1. If questioners posting on this forum were paying for the responses they receive, do you think they'd come to the table better prepared?

    Probably; but most questioners seem to be at an early stage of developing their ventures so their lack of experiences and knowledge means that they may not know the questions to ask themselves to become better prepared to ask for more relevant information.

    From my own situation, it is the way you in effect turn the tables and fire some questions or comment back to the questioners that I often find more useful than the eventual answer!

    2. Is the nature of the generosity of the contributors to this forum being taken advantage of?

    If questioners want to post requests for information, then they must accept the responses. They post on the forum because they know professionals will be responding. If they reject the advice, then clearly they are not on the road to business success. Business reality is a tough teacher and they will learn the hard way.

    I don't think the generosity of the contributors to this forum is being taken advantage of. That there are a few questioners who think that they know better than forum responders and want to challenge the experts responses are most probably doing so for ulterior motives. It may therefore be a tad unfair to think the great majority of questioners are trying to take advantage of forum experts in a perverse way. That is not the case; I think most questioners are genuinely appreciative of the experts advice.

    3. Is the content offered considered less valuable by questioners simply because they're getting what frequently amounts to thousands of dollars worth of information for free?

    From my own personal viewpoint, my answer is a clear and resounding NO. I like to monitor this forum and always read your responses, Gary, because I know that from the issues yo raise, I will always either learn something new or have some basic business tenet reinforced in my mind.

    So have a good break,Gary, and I look forward to renewing out acquaintance sometime in the not to distant future. I will miss you.

    sincerely,

    chiron34


  • Posted by Gary Bloomer on 9/1/2012 at 9:09 PM Author
    Jay, I agree that many people come to this forum with
    little knowledge of just what's involved in the process of marketing. Not all, but certainly a good enough number to make the process harder than it needs to be—for questioners and contributors alike.

    Phil, yes: "rubber stamped" is a good way to put the desire for validation. And for the others, yes, perhaps the man upstairs is indeed their best bet. The tough love I've handed out over the last three years has been dispensed as a result of seeing my Dad struggle with his business when I was a kid. I simply want to help people and sometimes, that means telling them things they may not want to hear.

    Steve, I'd support the idea of paid responses; I agree that it would help weed out those people who may be less serious, or who may understand less than they think they do. Who knows, perhaps a revenue share could become an additional stream of income for the site, with a split in the revenue shared between the people to whom points are awarded and the main site, as is the case with the recently launched affiliate program.

    Michael, I wish marketing (and design, and copywriting, and business planning, and a good many other fields) were as well regarded as the medical profession. Sadly, those fields are not.

    As for those who profess to be marketers but who are not—well, in many senses, you're right: I know of several self proclaimed social media experts who have fewer than 500 followers on Facebook and Twitter but who will gladly, and for a fee, show others how to improve "their" social media.

    I also know of other people, customer-focused, hard working, intently focused people in highly specific niches who, although they may not have what might be seen as "official" marketing training or background, are merrily pulling in $100,000 (and more), per month in net profit. So, I think real marketing can transcend one's background—AS LONG AS—one's results drive revenue and delight buyers.

    Yes, marketing is seen as the glitzy stuff: isn't that what the TV series Mad Men is anchored in? But, to paraphrase David Ogilvy "If it doesn't sell, it isn't creative!" I just love the old bugger's directness, don't you?

    I DO agree that this forum allows us to teach and to be
    taught, and that it's THE most robust of places in terms of the characters and the professionalism exhibited. I know there have been times when I've clashed with one or two people (Michael, my apologies to YOU especially on this point—as there have been times when you and I have, shall we say, been at odds. Nevertheless, our intentions have, and of this I'm certain, always been for the greater good).

    Thank you all for your opinions thus far. I'm well aware that the Labor Day weekend here in the USA may slow responses from other contributors who may be away, enjoying the last official weekend of the summer, so I'll be leaving this question open for at least another week.

    Meanwhile, thank you all for your responses thus far. Let's see who else may want to step forward. I've a feeling Randall may have quite strong feelings on this issue, as he and I have spoken about the matter of value at length off forum on and off for at least two years.

    For those of you here in the USA who are able to, and
    to anyone else reading this, enjoy the remainder of your weekend. As an aside, did you know it's now spring in Australia? This little snippet took me quite by surprise!

  • Posted by Gary Bloomer on 9/1/2012 at 11:20 PM Author
    Graham, Thank you for your thoughtful and well argued contribution. I'm flattered and thankful for your support and encouraged that my humble two cents' worth is actually read by at least one person!

    I agree with your point about early stage business development and its connection to questioning and a search for answers and instant results.

    In the vast majority of my posts, I've only ever strived to save people from the harsh realities and pain of ignoring the big pink elephants in the middle of the room of the business world. Sometimes, it's far easier to ignore what's blindingly obvious ... why, I've no clue. As a former colleague of mind in the UK is apt to say "You know, there's just no use knocking if there's nobody home!"

    As for my break, I have a few business issues to attend to, issues that need a good deal more focus than they've received of late. And the old ticker's in need of a wipe down with an oily rag and a tune up. I've every intention of shaking things up on this forum for a good while to come, so yes, I'll be back. I just need to focus my attentions elsewhere for a while.
  • Posted by Peter (henna gaijin) on 9/2/2012 at 2:32 PM Accepted
    Glad to hear you will be coming back, and heal up from any ticker work you get done. You can have quite a long break before having to worry about me catching up to you on points... 8-)

    1. If questioners posting on this forum were paying for the responses they receive, do you think they'd come to the table better prepared?
    Yes. But of course, we would have a lot fewer questions. Perhaps not even enough to justify having this site. Because the cost of posting a question is nominal, it is very easy for a questioner to just throw out a half-baked thought.

    Cost does seem to be a huge barrier, even if it is just the cost of time. This seems to be shown by the number of questioners who post a question and then don't take the time to respond with clarifications asked for by responders.

    Partly this shows up in the number of name/slogan we see, as these are easy to throw out without a lot of thought. Asking about strategy or something else takes a lot more preparation by the asker.

    2. Is the nature of the generosity of the contributors to this forum being taken advantage of?
    As question answerers, we know what we are getting in to when we participate. If we weren't getting some benefit out of it, we would drop out after answering a few questions and feeling that it wasn't worth it. Perhaps it is consulting clients, or the ego of being perceived as an expert, or the good feeling of helping others, or the benefit of thinking of how to answer questions that we don't see in our daily work, or something else. But each of us must be getting something out of it to stay on board.

    Of course, perhaps your question has something to it, as I am only talking about those who are still here. Could be interesting to see how many come and then quickly leave. Is this a large number, why do they go, etc.

    3. Is the content offered considered less valuable by questioners simply because they're getting what frequently amounts to thousands of dollars worth of information for free?
    I think the value they get out of it is based on what they put into it. A well thought out question can get some pretty valuable responses. A half-baked question could get some pretty terse responses. But those that do it right can get a lot of value out of it.

  • Posted by mgoodman on 9/2/2012 at 3:15 PM Accepted
    I do not speak for MarketingProfs here, but this may be a perspective that could help:

    Because of the large number of questions/answers on KHE, this is a tremendous search engine magnet for MarketingProfs. For example, if someone searches for "realtor tagline" they'll find MarketingProfs high up on page 1 of results.

    This means MarketingProfs has a chance to get a new basic member who may end up buying a seminar or two, or who may become a PRO member. And it's a person who will see/respond to advertisements on the site.

    Further, if they find KHE valuable (because of the expert advice) they may keep coming back, view more ads, ask more questions, or even become experts themselves.

    So MarketingProfs probably likes KHE just the way it is. No need to change it or find new ways to invest in it, or to worry about more direct monitization.

    For us, Steve has listed the reason(s) we stick around. We benefit from what MarketingProfs has created, and we repay them by giving them all the great content that keeps the site highly relevant for search engines (that attract new members).

    For one, I wouldn't change a thing. Some of my best clients have started out as KHE question-askers. I only wish there were more of them. But as we add new questions/answers for new target audiences, KHE will help MarketingProfs move to page 1 in search results for more searches, and the whole thing will feed on itself synergistically.

    What a nice win-win-win situation.
  • Posted by NovaHammer on 9/2/2012 at 9:15 PM Accepted
    Gary:

    Perhaps the 'white board question area' could be improved with a template ...as is-many can't/won't understand the full value of your expertise but have desires to offer their version of value to the world too..

    We welcome all comers here - some painting a few pickets in the landscape of their needs because painting fences is all they know but they aspire to paint landscapes with rainbows....

    It isn't difficult to tell the novices ....but your valued knowledge travels miles over and over again.... and i thank you all for the inspiration you provide me daily also..
  • Posted by Chris Blackman on 9/3/2012 at 10:23 PM Accepted
    Gary

    Others have already answered your question in great depth, and I endorse and add my voice to their appreciation for your commitment, creativity and willingness to share your fabulous expertise with others through this site.

    I think the question goes wider though. I've been hearing commentators say "The Internet makes us stupid" and to an extent it's true, in that the internet rewards people who can't be bothered formulating their thinking properly by providing a host of places where information is plentiful and fee.

    And the problem with that is that without well developed critical thinking skills some people will just accept the first piece of 'information' they find and start to work with it. KHE aside, there is a plethora of Q&A sites out there that will help people build a gazebo, fault-find an appliance, or decide what that yucky pimple is on the end of their nose and whether it's catching. And as for the quality of the advice found there - beware!

    I think that all of the serial contributors to KHE share one core attribute in the midst of their wide diversity: All seek to promote the critical thinking process in the person who has asked the question. Look at how many of the excellent answers on this forum are liberally peppered with Kipling's six serving men - "What and Why and When, and How and Where and Who"?

    Time and time again, this underlines the professionalism on the part of the respondent contributing their valuable advice. We may answer a question at face value, we may table and work with assumptions about what the questioner really meant, and then ask them further questions about aspects of their problem that ordinarily occur to us as professionals, but which the the questioner never thought were important to consider.

    I've often felt like you - especially with drive-by questioners - what's the point, am I casting pearls before swine and all that. But the one thing that brings me back is the ability to hone my own skills in the company of some of the finest colleagues most of whom I have never met, but to whom I feel very close.

    Gary, I hope the "oily rag" you say your ticker needs isn't too serious - perhaps you meant it metaphorically - but whatever challenges you face, I hope you come through with flying colours and we see you back here before too long.

    Cheers

    Chris




  • Posted by StarsDie on 9/13/2012 at 5:38 AM Member
    To add to the responses above, I would have said, the value is not "dying": it is raising again so far. In the times we live where you have to pay for practically everything (and often for not really qualitative things), relationships "people to people" are of the huge value.

    I'm here for several years already, yet I'm not an every-day visitor. Lack of time for the net due to many work and family duties - real life is taking over, you know. But I know that when I come here - I can always share my opinion on this or that issue, and I do it sincerely, which - I'm sure - do most of people who post here.

    I surely wouldn't be posting or replying to questions for money. I get money for doing my job. And I don't do money by consulting online, so if I see I can help someone here, I'd rather do it for free, or don't do at all. And - imagine - someone is offering money for replying to their question here... I would simply close the topic, because they better go pay to the consultancy agency for doing their job. I'm pretty sure most of people who post here think the same. It's in the air. And if someone is taking advantage of contributors' generosity - well, that's their problem. We're all humans, and we're all different. We give what we can give and we take what we can take.

    I rarely post questions here myself, but I'm trying my best to be precise in what I'm looking for. I'm sorry if sometimes I'm not. In no way this might be because I'm considering the help offered not valuable enough. On the contrary: if I come here to ask a question, I know I can count on professional approach, because we're all professionals here, and everyone is eager to share the good ideas.

    This place has a very special atmosphere for me, and I consider this a great value.

    I remember good posts from the author of this topic, and it's a pity, Gary, you're leaving... yet I'm sure - and I'm glad - that you'll be back.

    Best of luck.
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