Question

Topic: Strategy

Barq Asks What You Hate About “ad Agencies”?

Posted by Anonymous on 4/20/2007 at 5:59 PM ET 1000 Points
Today, with 6,142 Expert Points, and 8,400 Question Points, I broke the top 100 MarketingProfs expert list threshold. To celebrate, I will be transferring at least 2500 of my Expert Points to ONE of you by 5/4/07. The rest of the question points will be distributed evenly among all respondents.

QUESTION:
A couple of years ago Seth Godin wrote the book, “All Marketers Are Liars.” Its title, no doubt, was influenced by the fact that advertising people are trusted just slightly more than used car salesmen (maybe that is being generous!). I can understand why people might hate advertising agencies, based on the way so many shoddy goods are foisted on an unsuspecting consumer. Yet there is a plethora of companies that could quickly and easily benefit from the advice of a firm seasoned in the art of legitimate influence (ad professionals). And it does not need to be a slimy path. Why do YOU resist calling an agency?

[This is one in a series of 6 questions I am posing to those who are not advertising or marketing AGENCY staffers, but who are responsible for selling or marketing a product or service for your company. I will also consider comments from agency people, as long as you speak from a strong position of the marketing buyer’s insight. The questions will be posted in several MarketingProfs subject categories, so if you wish to respond to all questions (and qualify for the points), please click on my “Posted by” name (BARQ) and choose from my “Recent Questions” list. The last question will be posted by 4/30/07 in the “Just For Fun” category.]

BARQ
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RESPONSES

  • Posted by Harry Hallman on 4/21/2007 at 10:00 AM Accepted
    I am not sure Seth Godin, when he wrote his book All Marketers are Liars, meant that you can not trust all marketers (or ad agencies). His title is akin to Henry Ford's comment that “History is more or less bunk.” In other words it is written from the prospective of the writer. In fact, we all relate own history only as we saw it. Ford’s actual quote was:

    "History is more or less bunk. It's tradition. We don't want tradition. We want to live in the present, and the only history that is worth a tinker's damn is the history that we make today."

    So how does this relate to ad agencies? While, I do not hate ad agencies I do problems with some parishioners. They are:

    1- Ad pros that create advertising with more regards to winning industry awards then producing actually results. They are only adding to their own tradition not the client’s tradition they are being paid to create.
    2- Agencies that rely only on traditional techniques especially because they add to their own bottom line, instead of seeking new techniques that may be more effective.
    3- Agencies that promote a riff between the sales function and marketing because they believe it puts more revenue in their pocket.
    4- Agencies that foster an atmosphere of “we know everything” and disrespect other professionals hired by their client. They best results are achieved by working as a team.

    Just to make it clear I am not saying what Ford said is what I believe. I do believe we need to make history today but I also believe we have a lot to learn from the collective history and especially of our own history.
  • Posted by Ali Mustafa on 4/22/2007 at 2:07 AM Accepted
    Hi
    That’s your assumptions that people do not call an advertising agency, now a days people are depending more upon agency for their advertising, branding or any promotional activities. They know that they are costly but still most of the company’s are depending upon agencies to get their work done.
    this is just my thoughts i dont know what others have to say about it.

    mustafa
  • Posted by Deremiah *CPE on 4/22/2007 at 1:34 PM Accepted
    Hi Barq,

    hope you're having a great day & a wondeful life!

    So you want to know

    Barq> Why do YOU resist calling an agency?


    Deremiah, *CPE> Hi barq, I read the book by Seth Godin and here's my critique on AMAZON.COM about it.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A23NKJOK1ZNSHX/104-4043691-518...

    I'm not sure Seth's intention was to reflect on Marketers being potential liars as much as he was playing off a negative title pulling in an audience of people who are provoked by the negative spin on things. I didn't get a lot of positive voters but that's okay.

    My answer. I don't resist calling agencies at all. Shoot me an email and let's build a relationship. If you're good at what you do and I like how you flow I'll evangelize others for your cause...of course not without a small fee...how does a residual sound...(lol) :-)

    Thanks again Barq for asking such a wonderful question. You don’t have to give me any points at all because I participate for the love of the experience. I like making people happy. Now if there is anything I can do for you or anything I can do to make you happy please feel free to contact me. REMEMBER... our only real problem in life is our failure to be "MORE Creative" than we’ve ever been. If you “Invent” your opportunity YOU WILL most definitely create your future. I'm only an email away from you if you need my help Steve. Is there anything else I can do for you?

    Your Servant,

    Deremiah, *CPE (Customer Passion Evangelist)

    *Caring Promotes Exuberance
  • Posted on 4/23/2007 at 6:49 AM Accepted
    Hi Barq

    Ad agencies can be good when still small, the trouble begins when they take on so many clients then they delay your work, the extra sense of detail disappears.

    The copy is shallow and done carelessly, ad briefs are not read carefully so you end up wasting time taking the corrective measures.

    The retainer package is never justified.... always has charges that are not easily accounted for e.g phone calls, transport, time taken designing ad etc.....

    When your account manager leaves .... you indirectly have to train the new one, ...building the relationship...its like starting a new relationship with boyfirend/girlfriend......its taxing.

    Unnecessary/ delays of work that is time sensitive.. Print Ad placements

    BR

    EK
  • Posted by telemoxie on 4/23/2007 at 7:42 AM Accepted
    Your specific question was, "Why do YOU resist calling an agency?"

    Reading between the lines a bit - if I'm interpreting the question correctly, there is an underlying assumption here that prospects might somehow "call" an agency, i.e. that they would initiate contact based an ad or letter or something... and you are wondering why this does not happen more frequently - specifically from the perspective that marketing folks are perceived by some as liars.

    I feel that buyers of marketing services are less likely to "call" an agency because: 1) they cannot trust the claims made in marketing materials (for reasons stated in your question), and 2) they have no need to "call an agency" since they (and their boss, and the president of their company) are bombarded by agencies constantly, in every social situation.

    In my experience, an agency "earns" the right to be considered for future work through building relationships of trust, and through definite proof of capabilities (e.g. samples of work) and not by their own clever marketing materials.
  • Posted by Ali Mustafa on 4/23/2007 at 8:22 AM Accepted
    Hi barq

    You are right that people trust advices of those who know next to nothing about the market, marketing or about the company’s situation but still they take their advices or help, in this particular situation what I have found common is the relationships and that they speak simple language to convey their points and avoiding all marketing jargons which is easily understood by the owners of the company who knows little about marketing but not in all the cases. They also know the culture & working atmosphere of the company very well, I believe that its important that you should make good relationships and talk to the point avoiding all marketing fundas to get any projects as for the online advice, most of us know what we want but are confused about the situation so you can take an advice or ideas which will guide you thru your process. And mostly online advices is just to help you if you like it keep it if not then leave it, it’s just as simple as this, and suppose people who are skeptic for free online advices then they can turn to one of the great services of KHE forum hire an expert, hope this helps.

    Gracefully yours

    Mustafa
  • Posted by telemoxie on 4/23/2007 at 12:22 PM Accepted
    Thanks for clarifying. Following up on your example... I'm a telemarketing guy, not a medical guy - but it seems to me folks have several reasons to go to the doctor. In some cases, they know they are sick, and in others, they do not...

    Which is the bigger problem: the one you know about, or the one you are unaware of?

    Once you know the diagnosis, isn't the treatment usually fairly straightforward?

    The person you describe in your 4/23/2007 9:27 AM (EST) post seems to know he or she has problems, and is able to define, articulate and prioritize the problem(s), but does not know specifically how to solve the problem(s). In such cases, they might save money working with outside specialists (including free-lancers), avoiding the overhead of an "agency".

    In my view, an agency should work at a higher level.

    It would be nice if profitable jobs just fell in our lap. But it seems to me that sometimes, you need to help the client to understand they have a problem in the first place... you need to spend some time in advance of a specific opportunity to analyze, understand, and explain a situation, if you want to "earn" an agency style relationship.
  • Posted by telemoxie on 4/24/2007 at 2:03 PM Accepted
    you ask, "I am wondering what reasons have you heard for NOT calling in outside help".

    Since I'm working by phone, most of the folks I call upon are VP and Director level - I'm sure the answers would be different for CEOs.

    #1 reason: job security.
    #2 reason: budgets (hear this most, but I think it's really #2)

    If I'm a marketing person, I have more job security and job satisfaction if I have a list of a dozen folks I go to for this, that, or the other thing, than if I hire a "one stop shop" agency who knows much more than I do, and has lunch with my boss to discuss "strategic direction".
  • Posted on 4/25/2007 at 4:21 AM Accepted
    Why do I resist calling an agency when i have a marketing problem?

    Simply because my ad agency has not given me the comfort of being able to share marketing problems with them. An answer to a certain sales tgt non achievement could lie in the process being flawed and not to advertising or online prescence or bad DM.
    Also thats the way it shd be- my ad agency specialises in creative and media plans. It can tell me the best way to reach my customers. Its a Marketing professionals job is to ensure the the rest of things fall into place.
  • Posted on 4/28/2007 at 7:03 AM Accepted
    EIGHT REASONS WHY

    Jeff - here is my response to your great question: 'Why do YOU resist calling an agency?'

    You wanted a frank discussion, so no hold barred from now on! Here are the eight reasons why I (and others) resist calling an agency:

    1. Agencies are primarily interested in accounts that bring them revenue -- preferably big, long term revenue. That's fine if I can spend that kind of money. But I can't.

    2. I can usually do the work myself. I use an agency only if I can't include the work in my usual workload.

    3. I can usually buy media myself. However, when I have a lot of media to buy, I use an agency only because they can buy cheaper.

    4. Agencies routinely overcharge clients on production, and receive rebates from outsourcing. Plumbers do similar. It's pretty common practice in all kinds of markets, but unless I have a huge and fuzzy budget, I won't be participating.

    5. Agency people are great fun to be with. Just a little short of showbiz people. But that scene is for marketing people who represent big accounts. Not being Volkswagen or Virgin Airways kind of hampers joining that scene.

    6. An agency fights for peer recognition. It's understandable because it's a competetive arena. That means awards and write-ups in industry media are important to them. Unfortunately, that does not bode well for the client if he has metrics on his mind (in other words, my results and ROI). That's why so many ads don't carry a response mechanism such as a phone number or web address except in a tiny-type add-on kind of way. Addresses and such get in the way of creative work.

    7. I don't believe this, but many do: Marketing (selling) is only for thinking about once the product has been created and budgets allocated. Others can sell the stuff (if it isn't selling itself.)

    8. Agencies are crap at marketing themselves, so how can they be good at marketing other company's work?

    There are, of course, great answers to all of these points. But you asked for the negatives and so there they are.

    Great question!

    Peter Hobday

  • Posted by telemoxie on 5/4/2007 at 12:46 PM Member
    Regarding your "insight for agency new business developers", per your prior post - I believe that a program to offer, as an option, comprehensive, cradle to grave services related to trade show promotion, trade show exhibiting, and lead follow-up can be a good strategic move because:

    1) by focusing on companies who exhibit at shows, you are focusing on companies who are more serious about spending money to get the word out.

    2) it is efficient to meet with "companies who exhibit at shows" because you can go to a show, and see 100 or more of them.

    3) By stressing an optional "cradle to grave" approach, you bring up a range of provided services, giving you multiple entry points into a company.

    4) By stressing an integrated approach to enter a new market, you can avoid the objection, "we have an agency" - since that agency is focused on other markets. Your focus on specific markets (tied to shows) can help your agency develop a strategy become knowledgeable about and well known in a niche market.

    5) By offering comprehensive services, you get a chance to promote to multiple groups within a company, each of whom may have their own frustrations or needs.

    6) Companies who exhibit at trade shows need collateral, ad specialties, displays, and a variety of services.

    7) By stressing the entire promotional lifecycle, you demonstrate your knowledge of the B2B (and, maybe B2C) selling process - and this may differentiate you from other competing agencies.

    8) Folks who exhibit at trade shows have deadlines to meet, creating a sense of urgency which helps get the order.

    9) Folks spend lots of money on trade shows, as you have observed.

    10) An over-riding theme has seemed to be a difficulty in managing the multiple aspects of a trade show - and this is a very natural function for an agency.

    11) Trade show programs publish lots of helpful info, including contact names, phone numbers, email addresses...

    12) A trade show becomes a natural place to meet a prospective client, to walk around and see the booths, to determine which marketing style and approach fits them best.

    As I've thought about this issue, I'm considering about refining my personal focus to look for clients who exhibit at a minimum of 2 shows per year... for many of the above reasons.

    Good luck.
  • Posted by telemoxie on 5/4/2007 at 12:48 PM Member
    oops - sorry - posted above response to the wrong question...
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