Question

Topic: SEO/SEM

Seo: Are Double Results Punished?

Posted by Annelies on 1/4/2008 at 4:47 AM ET 250 Points
Dear all,

Is it true that you can use only one unique keyword per page in the meta tags to avoid that more than one page is scoring on that keyword in google? Is it true that websites with only one score are ranked higher because of this?
If I'm not clear, please ask me more details.

Thx in advance
Annelies
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RESPONSES

  • Posted by Inbox_Interactive on 1/4/2008 at 8:06 AM Member
    I'd like to ensure I understand the question.

    Are you asking if you should use the keyword "banana" on only one page of your site, and should "banana" be the ONLY keyword on that page?

    In other words, two pages using these keywords:

    Page A: "banana"
    Page B: "orange"

    As opposed to pages A and B both having "banana, orange."

  • Posted on 1/4/2008 at 11:01 AM Accepted
    Annelies,

    You can put as many keywords on a page as you like and not be "penalized". HOWEVER...

    When optimizing for search engines, many SEO practitioners, including myself, recommend only trying to optimize one keyword per page. Why? Because search engines use a component to their ranking algorithm called "keyword density". This number is a percentage of times that a keyword appears in the total content of the page. A good keyword density percentage varies by the competition you're up against and THEIR densities, but a good rule of thumb is 2-7% keyword density.

    (A good, free tool for measuring your keyword density and that of your competition is https://www.gorank.com/seotools)

    So let's say you decide you want to target 5 keywords on a page. That would mean that your target keyword density would be a maximum of 35% -- meaning every third keyword in the page would have to be a keyword!

    It's just cleaner, and my opinion often easier, to just keep one keyword per page if you can. Won't penalize you per se, but won't likely be optimal for content optimization and therefore achieving better rankings.

    Hope that helps.

    Janet Driscoll Miller
    Search Mojo
  • Posted by excellira on 1/4/2008 at 12:07 PM Accepted
    I think the question relates specifically to the keyword meta tag. The answer is no. You can place more than one keyword phrase in the meta tag without penalty.

    The problem is that some people place a great number of terms in the tag. This is known as "keyword stuffing". Placing 1 to 5 keyword phrases in KW tag is fine.

    It is a moot point however. At this point, most search engines place no value on the keyword meta tag.

    Also, it's impossible to optimize a site for one keyword term/phrase. We talk about doing that as SEOs but when you add content about a specific person, place, or thing you can't help but include terms which relate to that subject. In the process you end up potentially ranking for other terms as well.

    It's not like you optimize for one term and the SEs ignore every other part of the page.

    The good thing about this is that, through Latent Semantic Indexing you'll potentially receive a boost in ranking by using words which support the term you are optimizing for.

    So, for example, if your page contains the term "fishing" and your page has a fishing story which includes references to fishing reels, rods, boats, etc, then the value of the term "fishing" is enhanced.

    If the page is about a legal issue and the plaintiff is "fishing for clues" then this page would not contain supporting fishing terms.

    If you were searching for the term "fishing" which page would you rather see? The SEs have used LSI to determine that even though the legal page contains the "fishing" term it isn't relevant to the search query but the fishing page is.

    I hope this helps.

    Regards,

    Greg Hill
    Trinity Search Engine Marketing
  • Posted by Annelies on 1/4/2008 at 12:13 PM Author
    Inbox_interactive:
    yes, my question is: can I use on the page optimized for the keyword "light orange" also the keyword "medium orange" in the meta tags. If this word is not very competitive, I will have two results in google.
    Am I punished of having to results in comparison to the other pages that only say: "light orange" in their meta tag have let's say (which is impossible, but you never know) exactly the same other criteria to rank.
    thx for your interest.
  • Posted by excellira on 1/4/2008 at 12:17 PM Member
    I forgot to mention...

    I don't pay much attention to keyword density these days. I don't see it as important as it once was. It only seems to be important when it's too high. Therefore when I'm looking at KW density I'm looking more to see if its too high.

    I find that when you write about a certain subject the optimal density frequently occurs naturally. The SEs reward naturally written content. They're getting better at finding unnatural content.

    Also, you can't say that a specific keyword density is acceptable. So, saying 3-5% or up to 8% or 2% or whatever is acceptable. It's too general. The density varies depending upon your industry and the keyword. You'll have to check the top ranked pages to determine what is good for that term. But, then, you're using old data.

    -Greg Hill
    Trinity Search Engine Marketing
  • Posted by Annelies on 1/4/2008 at 12:19 PM Author
    jmiller, thx for your response.

    If I understand well the keyword weight of the keyword that is in the meta tags weights higher, so you reduce the keyword weight of the page by putting more than one keyword (or search strings, since it's often a combination of words and not just one word)?
  • Posted by excellira on 1/4/2008 at 12:21 PM Member
    I saw your response and thought I'd add:

    You're wasting time worrying about the KW meta tag. To answer your question however you can have the terms "dark orange, medium orange, light orange" in your KW tag. Just don't put 20 of them in there. Keep it to 1 to 5 terms or so and you should be fine.
  • Posted by Annelies on 1/4/2008 at 12:29 PM Author
    thx TrinitySEM, while I was writing your response, you already posted new answers ;-) thx for your great help.
    It was really clear. I just have one small additional question... what is LSI? I'm not native english, so maybe a stupid question...
  • Posted by wnelson on 1/4/2008 at 5:08 PM Member
    From Greg's (TrinitySEM) entry above

    LSI = Latent Semantic Indexing


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_Semantic_Indexing

    Great question, Annelies! I've learned a lot from the discussion.

    Wayde
  • Posted on 1/4/2008 at 5:32 PM Accepted
    1) There is no penalty for duplication in the meta keywords tag.

    2) The meta keywords tag also does not matter and is not important. Stop worrying too much about the meta keywords data.

    3) The most important ON-Page SEO factor is the page title.

    Here is a free SEO report for your website (from your profile):
    https://www.websitegrader.com/wsgid/564463/default.aspx
  • Posted by excellira on 1/5/2008 at 10:11 PM Member
    Yes, LSI = Latent Semantic Indexing.

    One thing we haven't discussed is the meta description and title tag. You could be penalized if those are duplicated.

    -Greg
  • Posted by Inbox_Interactive on 1/5/2008 at 10:58 PM Member
    "One thing we haven't discussed is the meta description and title tag. You could be penalized if those are duplicated."

    Just to clarify...you should not duplicate keywords within the description or within the title tag, but those two elements can share a keyword.

    baddescription="bananas, bananas, bananas"
    badtitle="bananas, bananas, bananas"

    gooddescription="bananas" and
    goodtitle="bananas"

    More or less correct?
  • Posted by Annelies on 1/6/2008 at 2:41 PM Author
    "One thing we haven't discussed is the meta description and title tag. You could be penalized if those are duplicated."

    Greg, you mean these always need to be unique. The keyword tags can be the same but the title and description should be unique for every page?
  • Posted by steven.alker on 1/7/2008 at 7:16 AM Member
    No points please – this is a very interesting discussion. We have someone to do SEO and he does a very, very good job. At long last I understand what he’s doing and now also understand the key points to relate to clients who are going through this process, whether they are using our SEO guy or their own people.

    Steve Alker
    Unimax and SalesVision
  • Posted by excellira on 1/8/2008 at 1:11 PM Member
    Ideally you want unique title and meta description tags for every page. This is easy enough, though labor intensive, to do with the description but it is often very difficult to do for titles on an ecommerce site or a site that is about one narrow subject.

    The way to get around it is not ideal but you can vary the title by moving the keyword around.

    These two titles essentially say the same thing but aren't duplicates:

    Bananas are best eaten when ripe.
    and
    The best time to eat bananas are when they are ripe.

    Usability issues aside its best to have your keyword phrase first if you can.

    It's also best, again, bookmarking/usability issues aside, to have your site name last rather than first. SEO's (including myself) can show you plenty of examples where this is not true but it is a better practice to place it last. If you have usability concerns you can place the site name first on the home page (though again, not necessarily ideal from SEO perspective).

    -Greg Hill
    Trinity Search Engine Marketing
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