Know-How Exchange : Our Forum

IF YOU REWARD ME POINTS FOR THIS I WILL NEVER SPEAK TO YOU AGAIN :-)

Blaine, I know you don't think we're fools, you also know I think the points systems is 'flawed' to the effect that I think simply answer all the question shouldn't be the only reward, and that the actual 'ranking' should be based on other criteria.

PLUS..I don't think that simply spending points alters the league board anyway!

As for not needing to ask questions, well right now I personally don't need to. I have been in marketing for 20 years, seen everything, done everything, and whilst I agree I am not a master of any particular element of marketing (although I am good at Product Development, Branding and eMarketing!). And I can't be any good because MarketingProfs will not print any of my articles :-(

Not sure what else to say to everyone who reads this message, I have earned loads of points, but hopefully soon intend to start my own consultancy (thanks for the prod Blaine) and when I do, I will need your help.

Anyway, I will shut up now :-)

Good luck to everyone, and remember this ... this place isn't about the points, I know Blaine and myself would do this if points were not available, and some of you out there know I have helped you outside of this forum, using up my personal time, for no gain in here.

We just like helping others, thats what this forum was set up to do, and I am proud to be a member of this community, and may it last forever!

You crack me up, Andrew!

Like I said, this is not directed toward a particular member or set of members who have not asked questions.

Rather it is directed at the statement in an article (not by you Andrew!! LOL!!) that the upper level experts have all the points the others need in order to ask questions. (As if there is a limited supply).

Thanks for your response Andrew, but please don't get upset...I wasn't directing it at you. Not start on that business plan of yours!! LOL!!

Good answer Hugh!

I too have been a bit suspicious of 250 point questions getting rewarded almost as fast as they are asked.

Personally, I have never "scammed" points, but I have experienced people rewarding me instantly simply because I was the first to asnwer ( I think). This is probably due to them not understanding the benefits of a forum.

You are on the right track as far as where I'm heading with this, Hugh!

I'm not upset :-) Maybe your question should have come with a "CE Mark" for safety reasons! ;-)

I didn't take it personally mate honest.

Leaky Funnel is absolutely right of course on several counts:

1. The points are not important (why promote a table anyway! It may actually suggest to the asker that I know more about marketing that someone else, which 99% of the time is untrue! ... OK 90% of the time).

2. As more questions get asked a) they will become more selective on answers b) I expect I will not have the time to answer all of them.

btw, just a quick observation on the 250 point questions, they are by their very nature URGENT or IMPORTANT, and I wouldn't expect them to be waiting days for a good answer, they will wait for a good enough answer to help them out of their immediate issue.

btw, I want more people to answer this question:
https://www.marketingprofs.com/ea/qst_question.asp?qstID=254

I wanna see how MP divides the points up :-)

Val ????
Why don''t you start recording peoples IP addresses, whilst not a fool proof way to stop people logging on with different ID''s it may help and/or deter!

Excellent response Jacco! Your last sentance is quotable...or is it a published quote already..LOL?

Seriously, you make a very valid point.

Andrew, I agree. I wonder why there are only 3 reponses to https://www.marketingprofs.com/ea/qst_question.asp?qstID=254 which has been open for a day or so now, and I have received 7 responses in 40 minutes?!!!!

Could points be involved here? The question she is asking is not that difficult to answer...she just doesn't have enough points to award.

Is this fair?

I am attempting to respond to the answers as much as possible.

At the moment, I'm going to finish my coffee and let some more people respond.

I'll be back soon......

P.S. This question IS NOT meant to be perceived as a derrogatory, passive-aggressive attack on the author of the article ( you know who you are)...rather an attempt to test the author's theory and my own as well.

It is funny how some topics bring out lots of answers:
The church question (https://www.marketingprofs.com/ea/qst_question.asp?qstID=229) 14 responses!

And only 4 responses on the lotalty card! (https://www.marketingprofs.com/ea/qst_question.asp?qstID=229)

Seems strange to me!

Anyway,, its the weekend, and I'm finishing work now, take care everyone

To sakmarketing:

Persoanlly, I do not believe you are "required" to ask questions. As a matter of fact and/or site rules... you are not. Please understand this is in response to another member's article about the point system. If you don't feel the need for answers, by all means, do not ask a question! It's your prerogative.

To manurajan:

I understand what you are saying about experts simply placing links as answers to some questions. My personal reason for doing this is to assist the asker in anyway I can....even if it means referring them to a link.
Perhaps that link may be more helpful than the other answers posted.

One thing I have noticed is when someone asks for specific help, they usually get a bunch of lengthy answers giving vague, "text book", responses on general marketing theory, then at the end, bounce the work back to the inquirer. Now they have to go look up all the terms, find the resources, LINKS, etc. If I have specific ideas for them, I will post, otherwise I will direct them to a place than can.

Allen, I agree. IP tracking would be futile at best. It is too easy to change.

I don't believe there is a reson to suspect misuse...someone simply mentioned a "curiosity" on how others seem to get quick points.

I believe Andrew and I hit the nail on the head by explaining:

1. People don't always understand they can leave the question open for awhile to get other responses so they just accept the first one they get.

2. Many people are looking for immediate responses and are on a time limit. Therefore, they ask, read, accept, and head to their meeting or whatever.

Someone else mentioned it is "annoying" that other members participate more than others and tend to dominate the forum. All I can say is we all have the choice to how much time we wish to put into this. I really enjoy it, so I'm here more than others. The key word here is PARTICIPATE. Everyone has a chance, but not at your own leisure. If you want more action participate more often.

If you want to know when questions are posted, click on the link that sends you an email everytime.

GHill,

I agree. I didn't even notice I was "#1" until after particpating for over 3 weeks! That little Top 25 Expert column was totally ignored since I figured there were others who had been here long before me so why look?

Although I have to be honest, now that I know, it is quite fun to compete.

But having a top rating certain helps when clients happen to see. I've had several compliment and state they have noticed.

Michele,

While I understand your point about the questions answered vs. accepted ratio, if they switched to that format, you would get a dead forum since there would be 200 people tied for first place who only answered 6 questions and got 4 acceptances....not to mention they only visit once or twice a month.

The merit and gauging an expert is not in how many people like all of his/her answers, but rather the quality of responses and participation in the forum.

Most of you are brighter than I, but simply do not participate as much. I don't believe I should be faulted for my positioning because it's not "fair" that I devote more time.

Speaking of why I spend time here...for both of the reasons you posted: Brain candy, and stealth marketing. Being a top "expert" in a reputable forum certain helps gain client confidence.

Everyone please remember...I don't award myself points, others do. My placement is my "democratic method" if you will. All I do is anwser questions, the asker does the rest.

Just to comment on the first post in this thread...

All point systems on forum systems are flawed, and having had some experience on a well populated bbs elsewhere, on another topic, that has a points system, there will be no satisfying everyone.

To me, in the end, point systems really are only somewhat of an indicator of a person's involvement in answering questions. They are not an indicator or overall quality, expertise, or anything else.

There will be some who will chase more points, others that will post diatribes complaining about it, others suggesting endless variations in the system to try to measure some attribute point systems can never accomplish objectively. There is likely to be someone, at some point in the future, that will allude to their point total on this site as a resume item (an actual occurance on the system I mentioned above, which will remain unnamed).

Point systems are an interesting addition to community sites as they seem to serve as a form of glue. They also, rightly or wrongly, are often interpreted as an indicator of the value of a member.

It could be that a small FAQ for new members about the point system and what the points are, and aren't useful for, would be appropriate.

They will be fun and controversial forever - which is not a bad thing.

tjh,

I agree with you 99%!

The 1% I don't totally agree with is how the point system can't indicate quality and/or expertise.

I believe it can...to a certain extent. Like mentioned above in another response, people will ultimately view the profiles of the "experts" to see the quality of the answers and activity in the forum.

If one is brilliant yet just sits back, watches, and judge member comments rather than participating (which is how you gain "status" here) how and why would anyone consider your answer valid? If you even answer that is.

It is just like McDonald's, do they have the very best burgers available...NO, but do they attract a lot of customers...YES!!! Meanwhile, the "snobby burgers" rot on the grill.

It all depends on your use of the forum.

BTW***I used the term "you" as a general reference, NOT tjh specifically so please do not get offended.****

VAl:

Thanks for the validation and clarification on some of the issues which may confiuse the point system. One of the most important things you said was that not only are the points basically endless, but you have to PARTICIPATE in order to acquire them. Participation is the foundation of a forum. Otherwise you have..well...dead space.

I must admit, I knew I'd create quite a "stir" with this one!

David:

I don't know what to say...you have "hit home", so to speak. Certainly, I do not intent to insinuate the other responses as less valid, but your point(s) are some of my main concerns as well. Although I am guilty of leaving "I agree with those guys" responses from time to time, it is not in effort to get in on the points, but rather (at the risk of conceit), help validate the other responders by "approving" since I am at the top of the "expert" list.

FYI- I almost NEVER get reward for those type of responses. Again, I am not conceited nor do I consider myself above any other member...I just like to help out and throw in my "Yeah, those guys are right on!" statements. I do so in attempt to instill more confidence in the asker regarding the more detailed responses posted. Think about it...would you be more likely to pursue advice if a few of the Top 25 experts dropped a line stating they agree? It's kinda like a referral.

Also, I am (like Val) somewhat "addicted" to the forum. This is a great place for me to let my creative juices flow out like a broken dike! I love it! So even if I agree a previously posted response is a valid answer, I can almost always come up with a variation or addition.

Thanks for responding everyone! I'm leaving this one open for awhile!

P.S. I like the idea of point allocation as well. Let's add that to the focus!

Parkhe:

I think thie issue of misuse has already been resolved. It is unlikely there are experts here awarding themsleves points due to the IP tracking and scripts in place by the tech staff and editor (see staff and moderator responses above).

My question isn't so much that the top experts are "scamming" points, but rather "hogging" them by not asking questions, which is the only way another person can acquire points to award for answers to their own questions aside from actually getting their answer accepted by an asker.

Thanks for your input! I'm gonna check out those other sites just for kicks...

Jett's point about having other "yup, what s/he said" type answers helps validate certain views and helps strengthen the questioner's decision making process, what about if there was some way for other respondents to vote on previous answers?

Or is that making it all too convoluted and complicated?

One more point to throw on the barbie - when should a question be closed? I've responded to questions that seem to have been fully answered by a raft of experts, but they still remain open. Does the system send a reminder to the question-poser that they might return to the forum to see if they have enough answers to merit closure?

Re Val's mention of sites that are gone... Try looking them up at www.archive.org. They even keep various versions captured at different times in the life of the site - watch them go downhill, if that appeals!

ASVP/ChrisB:

Regarding the voting proposal, the moderator addressed this in a response posted above.

...and Yes, there is a reminder sent out to the inquirer after a week or so. After that, if still no response, the moderator distributes the points evenly to all respondants.

I hope that helps!

Thanks for your input!!

THE SYSTEM:
I think the system will sort itself out soon, I have reached my max when it comes to answering questions, and I know MP want to get more askers involved, when that happens, I will need to look more carefully at the subject matter then answer those I have particular skill in rather than answering everything!

TOP ANSWERERS POSTING Q's:
Two point here I guess:

1. There is nothing in the rules about participants having to ask questions to help provide points
2. This is a relatively new forum, I think we need to give it time to bed in!

Just had a thought, I know we need to keep the points system for premium rate stuff coming up soon, so thats a given, but why don't we give people titles that show their involvement (related to points), then more people get highlighted for the 'grade' they are at?

EXAMPLE:
Junior Marketeer <1000 points
Assistance Marketeer <2000 points
Assistant Product Manager <3000 points
Brand Manager <5000 points
Product Manager <6000 points
Group Product Manager <8000 points
Marketing Manager <10000 points
Group Marketing Manager <12000 points
Strategy Manager <14000 points
Assisitant VP Marketing <16000 points
VP Marketing <18000 points
CEO <20000 points
Chairman >20000 points


Just an idea, and would mean that we are all Assistant Product Managers or less! Need to work on the titles and points!

Andrew:

Good Ideas! Kinda ties into my suggestion about providing links we can place on own sites that lead to our profiles ( which I am designing for Marketingprofs as we speak).

It would be great to have some sort of title above the link to state your status!

Nicolas....my eyes are numb!!!

I like your ideas and comments.

One point you mentioned that wasn't previously brought up (or at least caught my interest) is the fact that too many askers are vague at best!

For Example:

"I have a business I need to market. It sells lots of stuff. Any advice on what to do? Please help, I have a meeting tomorrow!!!"

These kind of questions drive me crazy!!!!

I definately agree we need to make sure the inquirer is as specific as possible. Otherwise, it's a big waste of resources.

Thanks again!

Parkhe:

I don't necessarily agree with the hierarchy...I just said it was a good idea, meaning "worthy of consideration or modification".

Although I understand where you are coming from, I think the probablity of creating an 100% altruistic forum is nil. I believe the experts need to be recognized and rewarded in some fashion for their time, effort, and accepted answers.

In spite of the fact that I truly love to help people, I have a business to run...and if my time spent here does not produce a valid return, I will focus my efforts elsewhere.

Whether it's a feedback rating like ebay, or a point system, there is still a "number" that will spontaneously indicate a hierarchy...like it or not.

Furthermore, if the answer helps the asker and he/she is satisfied and therefore passess the word around and so on...why does it matter whether or not the experts are rewarded? The same objective is achieved and relationships are still established.

Remember, the inquirers are rewarded with advice...so what do propose the experts should receive in return? A warm fuzzy feeling?

Parkhe, just a couple of comments on the points system from my perspective.

As a general observation, I am not fully content with the points system as I have documented in this and other threads, but I do see it as completely necessary for two reasons.

1. MP are a commercial organisation and obviously need to make additional revenues, there are several ways of doing this on the web:
a) Banner Ads/Advertsing
b) *whisper*Subscription Fees*whisper*
c) E-Commerce
d) Affiliates

MP are obviously doing a) and are too nice to really do b), so are looking at c) and providing premium content in the future, and a points system for "Experts" (people lucky enough to get points) is, as I see it, a reward system for those of us who spend many hours formulating details responses to help people. [Note: D) comes after c)]

2. I think its a great way to prioritise the askers questions, you believe it to be urgent or difficult you make a large number of points available, its lower priority it gets lower points ... this will be valuable when more askers join.

Now why am i answering this question? Because it's worth 1000 points! What am i going to do with those 1000 points if i win? Who knows! What if i don't win---am i going to be really sad and cry all the way through my lunch hour? No of course not!

Let's face it. We love the point system because we're Americans (well, most of us), we all studied business and competition is in our blood. And by the way, just like in real life, if the best answers win and there is always going to be a number one expert. There's no need to say he's hoarding points. He won those points, and I didn't. Simple. That should make me want to get on the stick. Competition is Life. Life is Competition.

Let's face it. We love the point system because it adds a little fun to our day.

And, let's face it. Those of us who answer questions are all know-it-alls who love to hand out advice (even in our private lives). I'd love it if my husband gives me 200 points tomorrow when i suggest that his company's website needs an overhaul. Frankly, that's not going to happen.

So let's roll with it and have fun.

PS . . . If I have written something that someone has already suggested--so sorry. I didn't have time to read everyone's answers.

(PPS . . . this is in brackets because i'm going to try to make this as subliminal as possible. And, you might want to squint so that it's even less obvious . . . [oooh, Jett, pick me. Pick me!] Ok, now I'm done.)

WOW! A lot of variations today!

Who thinks I should give the points to "mjames9022"? LOL!

I'll comment more later on after my aspirin kicks in!

mjames9022:

LOL!...Actually you didn't give me the headache....this question did!!!

I must admit, you make some very valid points.

However, please take note that a mjority of inquirers award points to many, if not ALL the answers and follow-up with statements regarding how they plan on utilizing all the input.

I agree 100% there is rarely ONE answer to a question...that is why many answers are accepted. We are not necessarily competing against each other, rather, the point system provides motivation and justification for spending the time to answer...since a ranking may help an "expert" obtain further validation with the community and their clients.

Cal and LeakyFunnell:

Interesting input indeed. Puts a different facet to the forum rating!

FYI-

It's been almost a week now and I have received some excellent responses!

However, I think it's getting too long for people to review (57+ answers) since the responses are starting to "repeat" themsleves.

Therefore, on Friday, 02/13/04, Midnight CST I will select an answer. So here is approx. 30 hours notice to give me all you got!!!!

OK...I said Midnight...but it was a hard decision... wanting to stand true to my statement about only one person gets the points.

Although I wanted to award many, I chose DavidatHaley for many reasons. To name a few:

• He candidly expressed he wanted the 1000 points, AFTER stating he was not here to rack up points.


• He indirectly admitted he DOES NOT know everything about marketing.


• He openly expressed a desire to use the points to ask questions in order to self-educate AND enhance the quality of his client services...thereby passing the "wealth" of points around and not just sitting on them because you are an "expert" and have nothing else to learn!!


• His current participation and advancement within the forum

Who was "almost" tied with David?

• Ricky
- For her brutal honesty about competition, excellent insight, sense of humor, and for asking to receive the points.

David pushed ahead of you only because of his experience and ranking in the forum, which I felt was a VERY important factor considering whoever "won" would instantly move to the Top 10. Not that you don't deserve it, but David kinda "beat you to it" so to speak. I have read all of your responses and think your experience and "spunky" personality are a very important addition to the forum so keep it up!


• jaccog
- For speaking a 1000 words philosophically and logically by only using a few. Jacco, I loved your response and it ties into my own reasonings. I wanted to give you the points, but elected to go with a more explainatory response. Nothing personal.

"Nothing personal"....that statement brings out an important point (no pun intended):

I felt all the input was great! I knew I would create a stir with this one but never imagined to receive such a response. This thread, as cal mentioned, catalyzed an obvious need to collaborate more opinions focused on possible improvements to the point system.

Yes, I realize almost every response had a suggestion, but perhaps a new question should be posted regarding specific proposals/plans based on a collaboration of the ideas expressed in this thread.

I think I proved my point (again, no pun intended..LOL), that not only are more "experts" drawn to questions that offer a large point reward, but most are afraid to admit it.

Except, of course, for those who explicitly stated they despise points or point systems. They were here to simply add to the thread and I thank them doing so...it kept it from being one-sided and spawned new discussion.

In addition, the egos of those "experts" who feel they are here merely to donate their vast knowledge as a "charity" for those who know less than they, and refuse to ask questions because they truly believe they are here to be the teacher, not the student are the true destructive forces of any forum. This forum is to EXCHANGE knowledge...hence the name. If you think you are Yoda, I don't think an "exchange" is the place for you to be. Try looking for a "Know-How Donation Center".

Special Thanks to:

• AndrewS


• cal


• Leaky Funnel


• Parkhe


• Val

You guys stayed on top of the thread and helped keep it moving! I have a feeling we are all going to be major participants in the next one. Get out the aspirin!

I consider my "almost-win" a true accomplishment. Thanks Jett. You're my Yoda, even if you try not to be.