Question

Topic: Website Critique

Flash Vs. Html - Website Project Gone Wrong

Posted by Anonymous on 3/4/2006 at 11:57 PM ET 500 Points
Here is my dilemma...

I’ve hired a company to provide website design and development for my business and the company has provided a great looking website, but it is not functional for the needs of my typical user. If you know anything about Flash, you know it makes the graphics look awesome, but can drastic limit functionality and user-friendliness. Only in final hour of the project, we found out that in Flash, one cannot print or bookmark a page, you cannot use hyperlinks in the site, the back button does not work, you cannot enlarge/reduce the size of the text, if you have a mouse wheel it will not work, not to mention that is extremely hard for a flash site (that updates regularly) to be found in google and yahoo searches because all text is usually embedded in the graphics. It is also too advanced of a software to expect conservative clients to have plug-ins for.

Anybody have any advice for me to resolve the issue?
As of last week, the company said that they don't care that the site doesn't work. Please help!

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RESPONSES

  • Posted by Carl Crawford on 3/5/2006 at 4:06 AM Member
    Your web company is incompetent.

    "one cannot print or bookmark a page"

    You can print out the page, but in flash you have to define which frame of the moving image you want to show up. While you cant bookmark the exact page you want, you can bookmark the main page.

    "you cannot use hyperlinks in the site"

    That is a complete lie. If they don't work then you web company didn't do there job correctly (and doesnt know how to use flash).

    "the back button does not work"

    In good web design you should not have to use the back button.

    "you cannot enlarge/reduce the size of the text"

    That is a lie, you can but the text needs to be in a separate file. If they did there design correctly all you would need to do to change the text on the site is to edit a text file. The functionality to reduce/increase the text size needs to be built in to the site from the beginning.

    "if you have a mouse wheel it will not work"

    It should. Also if you were designing the site for "user friendliness" you shouldn't have to scroll the text.

    "not to mention that is extremely hard for a flash site (that updates regularly) to be found in google and yahoo searches"

    That bit is true

    "because all text is usually embedded in the graphics."

    That's one way of doing it, but is not a very smart way.
    (see my explanation above)

    "It is also too advanced of a software to expect his conservative corporate clients to have plug-ins for."

    The flash plugin is installed on 99.7% of computers, it is a free download and only 500k in size. All they need to do is get there IT department to install it or if they don't have an IT department all the need to do is download the installer double click it, the click "i agree", chose where to install it (default is best) the press "ok". Reboot then they are ready to use it. Even my great grandma (she's 102) can install the flash plugin.

    Also if they were following the WC3 design guidelines there should be a html based page for people that dont have images turned on, that are blind or suffer a disability, dent use Microsoft Windows or Mac, dont have the flash plugin installed.

    Other uses for the flash site:

    Well you could use it for an interactive CD but you still have the problem of needing the flash plugin installed on the computer. A better technology to use for interactive CDs would be Shockwave but that's beside the point now.

    I hope get to keep the source fla and html files used in the making of the site and not just the final SWF file, because if that is the case you were ripped off big time. The reason, you cant update the swf file without the fla file.

  • Posted by Billd724 on 3/5/2006 at 5:57 AM Accepted
    Ah my dear fellow sufferer . . .

    To quote a recent President, "I can feel your PAIN!". I really can. I went though just such a situation this past year and, while I can't offer you such key insights about the programming as FireFox has already, I can speak to you from the position you and your client are sitting in . . .

    Unfortunately, there are more people who represent themselves to the unsuspecting public as 'web designers' or 'application developers'. More often that we all like, that's probably an exaggeration if not an outright lie. Not all, but enouogh that 'Caveat Emptor' is heard a lot by disgruntled clients.

    In fairness, you indicate that the firm performed as 'technically' required . . . perhaps so. In which case if I was your client I'd be kind of irritated with you -- afterall, weren't you hired to help avoid just such a situation as your client is now in?

    I'll wrap up with two things:
    1. lessons you better learn from this, and
    2. what you might want to do now

    Lessons:
    Request a Functional Specifications Document BEFORE You Start
    The time to settle any dispute or misunderstanding is BEFORE you get started on a project. It's imperative that you get a document drawn up that outlines what the 'deliverables' will be (functional specificiations) and commentary on how they will be produced for you. In that document, any (ANY!!!) term that you cannot give to three (3) different people and get three (3) identical explanations back should make you lose sleep over the fact that you and your design firm are probably poised to be 'digging two tunnels' through the mountain. And that, as you well know, ain't too smart or good!

    Work with a Designer / Firm To Whom You've Been Referred By Someone You Respect and Trust
    After losing a serious amount of money on an application development -- my wife almost left me for being so stupid -- I got smart and asked a trusted and revered business colleague where HE gets his application development work done. Learn from my mistake . . . the application developers he introduced me to were not only the BEST people I could work with, but they were extremely competitive, too! Plus, they wanted to keep my friend happy so they tended to 'suck up' to me during the rescue of my project -- an unanticipated but greatly appreciated benefit of only working with a known and proven expert in the field you need.

    Establish a project timeline!
    As the saying goes, "If something can go wrong, it will . . . etc.". In order to know if things are going well or not, you need to know what 'OK' (and, 'Not OK) looks like. I found the project timetable to be an inestimably helpful tool for both me and my designers. Why? Because they knew what I was expecting and I knew that, if the schedule was being met, to be cool and not jump around like some demented jerk because I might 'feel' things aren't right where they should be. Your project timeframe / plan is a key to enjoying that outcome.

    Inspect What You Expect
    Again, another cliche! Guess what. It's a truism because it's true. Whether it's the fat lady singing or whatever, the project isn't done until it's done. Period. So don't assume that just because it's underway, you can kick back with a beer and just show up when it's time to be delivered. "Life is what happens while you're making other plans . . . " Same for projects. All your initial plan does is give you a guideline . . . it's rarely going to match up with what happens. BUT . . . by having a plan and sense of what is supposed to be happening, you'll be far more likely to catch it when it's not and make the many little (key word!) adjustments that are needed to produce your project in the timeframe and budget you've got. I believe the Apollo astronauts were on their flight plan less than 2% of the entire flight . . . but by catching each deviation quickly and making minor corrections, they were able to complete their mission in a successful manner by anyone's standards.

    OK, now for the 'fun' part . . .

    What To Do Now
    I've paid dearly for the advice I'm about to share with you so I hope you'll consider it carefully.

    It's Just Business . . . Avoid Making It Personal
    First, while you and/or your client may entertain moments of madness where you envision causing these Jack_ _ _ es severe bodily harm, I would urge you to remember that this is 'just business'. In fact, it's your client's business. And while the insoucient, incompetent and despicable behavior on the (alleged) designer's part is 'all that and more' you have to look at the 'BIG' picture and ask yourselves, "Do we want to be right or rich?". Based on what you've said, I suspect that you haven't got Jack _ _ _ _ in terms of the programming code and it's not even on your server. So that's not good. When, after missing yet another deadline for a performance specified in our initial agreement, I said to my former developers, "OK, just give me the code I've paid for (stupid me, I had paid them the last payment as a gesture of goodfaith -- boy was that a bad move!) and we'll go our separate ways . . . " They told me, "Not until you sign a 'hold harmless' release and promise not to sue us for non-performance" (even though that's exactly what they did / didn't do). My attorney explained that, while what they were doing was unethical and immoral, it wasn't illegal. He pointed out the old adage about 'possession being 90% of the law' and you know what? He was right. He called it 'legal blackmail'. Your bozo developer is banking (literally!) on the fact that your client has more to lose by getting tied up in an extended legal battle and so will leverage your client's need to recover the monies already invested by offering a 'quick' albeit painful way out of this mess. So I suggest you have your legal counsel draft an agreement that says you 'own' the product and have it delivered to your (new) developer / representative and that any final payment or release is contingent upon your client being able to make the code (that they provide to you) actually 'work' as you expect / you agree on the server where you'll actually be hosting the site or application. If you don't do that, you may be paying for a 'pig in a poke' and you'll soon realize a nasty joke has been played on you and your client.

    Move On and Move UP!
    Once you have found a new developer who can fix the problems you've paid so dearly for . . . get on with your project and your life. Now you appreciate where that bumper sticker, "________ Happens" comes from, don't you? I found the best 'revenge' (it didn't cost me any jail time) was simply making the dang project work (finally and correctly) and then finding creative ways to be sure the former developers learned that it was working and making me money. I also suggest that, as a matter of public service, that you offer to share your insights with others so that ignorance and incompetence and insoucience never *have* to get together in your town again. While I am very careful not to openly identify the offensive developers, I do make it known that I was compromised by a local firm and that I would be happy make it known which firm it is . . . in private . . . IF anyone cares to ask. I never volunteer that information in writing. Only verbally. And only if I am asked for it. This 'offer' of mine is well known and the SOB's know that they are progressively being outted for what they did and who they are . . . it's not as good as a slow, twisting death but, I'm not stuck fighting with them over what I'd paid for but never received. Besides, 'living well' is truly the best form of 'revenge'.

    I respectfully suggest you heed this advice . . . share it with your client and wrap things up with the bozo developer ASAP . . . regardless of the cost because every day this matter keeps your client from making money is a further expense you have to recover from . . . because, "time IS money". Don't lose sight of that reality as you salve your bruised egos and wallets. And, in the future, be very careful WHO you do business with . . . most designers aren't bad people (some of my best friends today are designers and developers!) but like you and me, they too are 'human'. They're prone to making promises they'd like to keep but find they can't. They're not usually morally corrupted. But they're often caught in the act of being human and then show an unpleasant side of themselves as they try, often badly, to extricate themselves from a situation they should never have gotten into with you / your client. Let go and move on. You'll be happier and richer for it. I promise you that.

    Good luck . . . hope the project turns out to be a smashing success!

    Bill



  • Posted on 3/5/2006 at 8:16 AM Member
    Flash will limit your Search Engine Optimization efforts, as well.
  • Posted by telemoxie on 3/5/2006 at 11:54 AM Member
    Arnie - personally, I would not consider myself competent to "manage" such a project, but I have been on the "service provider" end of this problem as well. I have done projects where the client never really thinks about what they want until I have completed the project and submitted my bill. Then, if I'm to be paid, they expect me to start from scratch (and this is why I no longer take on such projects).

    If the company has completed the work they agreed to do, they should be paid. It may be that certain reasonable conditions, such as providing source code, could be included at this point. Sorry to be brutal, and I do not know how far along this project was when you became involved, but I would say that the degree to which you have earned your fee for "managing" the project may be an important but separate issue.

    I'm not a web guy, I'm a telemarketing guy, but if flash makes it difficult for Google to see your site, I would check to see if I can set up a page designed for search engine optimization which links or forwards to your fancy flash site.
  • Posted on 3/5/2006 at 6:12 PM Member
    First of all, don't fuel any problems by pointing fingers, even at yourself. It takes effort and brainpower away from solutions.

    My suggestion is to speak to your main contact at the Web design firm, tell them that you will pay them for work accomplished and ask them how they would resolve these issues for you (ask them for a quote, too).

    List the must-haves, i.e. SEO, content management capabilities, navigation improvements, etc.

    This way, at least you've made them aware of your issues and perhaps they will see an opportunity to save the account, and thus discount any fixes. If not, perhaps you'll get an idea of what it will cost to get it to where you need it.

    I have many ways to save your project, but don't have the room here. Feel free to contact me to discuss.

    Sorry you had to endure this.
  • Posted on 3/6/2006 at 3:29 AM Member
    How terrible business it is !

    Frankly, I must say that you are great wrong in this project. You are an consultant not a manager for web-design, and you do not know about FLASH, HTML and other more. So you should try to know some basic about it, and you did not do.

    Now there is a big problem for you, but not for your client and web-making company. Because the communication is blocked by yourself.

    As far as now, I think I can help you more or less, because the google and yahoo is a complex web search, not only for text or title, but also for head structure(HTML desinging).

    I need to know more detail of your Flash files, if you trust me, please contact me in email.
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